No offense bud, but that question is absurd...

the needs/desires of all the citizens will never be all the same...the primary mandate of the government is to protect its citizens, not make each and every indiviuals innermost dreams come true...and not even to cater to each and every citizen, but rather the the majority

I dont want to debate you on this Jack - its fair to say we wont agree. Someone who lives in Florida cannot accurately know what its like to fear foreign terrorists, just like someone who is from NY cannot accurately know what its like to fear a hurricane.


I dont begrudge you your opinion tho - I just cannot diasgree more fervently. And I am not a 'political'person either Jack. I dont hate democrats or love republicans or vice versa - at this point in my life, a conservative viewpoint meshes with the indivivual beliefs that I have - most importantly, protection from foreign terror. If you dont think this is a common belief throughout America, you must not have been paying attention during the last election.

I'd be interested to hear the opinions of others...

CJ,

I'm pretty drunk, but com on, it's pretty difficult for any government to act in the approval of all it's citizens, that seems pretty impossible. If paradise were created I'm sure somebody would be pissed (the Mob for an easy example?).

IMO, you can't construct a 'heaven' without keeping some people away from the party.

I'm having a party anyways!

Molina

Molina, I don't think CJ meant acting in the approval of all it's citizens. I think he meant working for all of their citizens well-being.

Oh and CJ, I happen to aggree with you.

Well, CJ might have meant that, but I think my comment applies either way, ther is no way a govenment can work in the interests of all its citizens at one point in time. Maybe I'm splitting hairs, maybe effective discussion works best with efficient argumment.

Molina

I think the government can work for the well-being of most of it's citizens....

Let's just notice someting interesting about the historical republican tradition: that government should be small and stay the fuck outta people's business...yet, this 'republican' administration wants to be in EVERYONE's business...hmm!

I read something a little disrespecful but I laughed so much I almost...well, I laughed. "How can you put 52 million idiots together? Well, ask president Bush as he has managed...."

LOL. Not that I shared that, but it just express how difficult was, for most people living outside the USA, to understand how Mr. Bush won the elections there. THAT IS MY POINT. NO OFFENSE INTENDED.

On the other hand...Jesuschrist! I cant pass an opportunity to flame Mr. Bush and his presidency .

I am fine with being in the minority here but your answers to my points are woeful Jack

I'm impressed...that was really well written and thought-out. The guantanamo case is particularly chilling if we consider the case of the prisoner who was killed and beaten to a pulp...who the people who 'know' are starting to think was a completely INNOCENT cab driver who was in the really wrong place at the really wrong time.

The WW2 stuff is also actually true: the US was looked upon as the moral good guys and the world respected the US for their involvement...even if it was late and only when Japan pissed the US off. But, that's different now: the worldview concerning america is decidedly more negative...and not just for the stupid reasons of being 'free' and a 'democracy'...it's because of the horrendous foreign policy that the US has developed.

good job k3nt

OK finally a taker..

"For all I know, the government is wiretapping my phone and watching everything I do. They're monitoring my e-mails. Who knows? They could be doing the same to you. Does that really make you feel safer? "

Does it make me feel safer to know that the gov't is monitoring phone calls of people that are suspected of being terrorists? yes.

Would I be upset if I found out there were monitoring my phone calls? No, all they'd here is a lot of me being nagged by my wife and coming back with lame jokes, then again, I'm not a terrorist and I'm not up to any evil deeds, so why should I be upset?


I'm not addressing the abortion issue, because I wasn't addressing it initially. My original post has NOTHING to do with a defense of the Rebublican party as a whole - as I iindicated. My personal beliefs on abortion are irrelevant here (I think I was wholeheartedly FOR a woman's right to choose, until I recently b ecame a father for the first time - which complicated my feelings - I suspect that I am still Pro-choice, but haven't given it enough thought. again, nothing to do with domestic security.

"As for question #2) Do I really think that this administration has some nefarious agenda outside of protecting its citizens?

On one level, the answer is yes, I do. Everything I have seen makes it look like George Bush and company were determined to invade Iraq even before they came into office. There is a lot of evidence for this."

May I see some proof of this please?

I have seem some hysterical bashing of the current administration before, but mostly characterizing Bush as an incompetent, unintelligent boob. Never before have I heard someone call him Evil and theorizing that Iraq was planned prior to 9/11. This is high comedy and I'd like to see some proof of that.

"On another level, the question presumes something that I don't agree with. You presume that just because people don't "have a nefarious agenda," that means that nobody's rights are going to be trampled on. That's just not true. You can justify ANYTHING in the interests of "protecting America."

I could justify putting you, Allstar7, under permanent surveillance, without a warrant. You just might be a threat."

Only my parents call me Allstar7, you can just call me Allstar.

"Do you remember the Cold War? Or are you too young? During the Cold War, the threat from the USSR was, at a guess, at least 1 million times graver than the threat from al Qaeda. The Russians literally had the ability to destroy this country, within minutes, any time they wanted to. "

Im 31 so I remember the cold war through a childs eyes, but am fairly up to date on history. Regardless, the hysterical hyperbole here is astounding, and from a teacher no less? "1 million times greater of a threat?" Really?

Maybe we need to discuss for a bit the difference between the old USSR and Al Qaeda. Its clear that there's a fairly serious disconnect here. The USSR was a legitamate government, which was confined in its actions by a fairly standardized set of rules. Even in a colod war scenario, a legitamate goverment would not attack civilians on their way to work at the WTc, or bomb a subway. Al Qaeda is not a nation, it is a lossely affiliated group of terrorists cells, murderers and criminals. They have no citizens or civilians in their care and no regard for their place in the world. Their goal is to kill people who don't beleive in radical Islam and create fear. I'd like to see you address that, but I suspect you'd probably call them 'freedom fighters' or something close to that. You could tell that to my buddy who worked at Cantor Fitrzgerald, called in sick that day, only to have 100% of his coworkers die. Thats the type of thing thats scary.

Maybe my life experiences have jaded me to the point where I'll trade some personal rights for perceived safety. Maybe living in the Midwest gives you a false sense of security with respect to the threats faced by the Federal Government every day. I suspect you hate Bush and would take any opportunity to skewer him (my guess and opinion only, please take no offense). Again, this thread makes me sound like a knee jerk conservative, which I am not. I rarely follow politics in general, and don't have strong opinions on party idealogy, except when it comes to this issue - which, due to my specific life experience hits me in a sensitive area.

I do know this, the current administration understands Al Qaeda and the threat they pose. They understand, fundamentally, that the only language these "people" understand is violence. If you can show me a situation where Al Qaeda has shown a willingness to negotiate or engage in some form of civilized behavior, I'll eat my monitor.
To equate those animals with people is wrong.

Again, I gladly accept my psoition in the minority here, but as of the last election, at least 52% of the voting public agreed with me - and around here, among the people in this country most affected by 9/11, I would say that opinions like yours are few and far between (this is of course based only on anecdotal experience).