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Ed Miller's Short Stack system

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Ed Miller's Short Stack system

Postby puterguy76 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 8:43 pm

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Postby AlexMR » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:33 pm

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Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Postby puterguy76 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:43 am

Anyone have any thoughts on this?
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Postby iceman5 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 11:49 am

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Postby rdale » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:34 pm

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Postby Sunbob » Mon Aug 01, 2005 2:51 pm

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Postby laynegt » Mon Aug 01, 2005 3:11 pm

A friend of a friend of mine plays poker and we got to talking and turns out he did/does this on Stars, 4-tabling $100 tables, buying in for $20. The guy i'm pretty sure is a good player, but he said he was building a roll and that it was quite the GRIND, but it definitely worked. didn't discuss specifics though.
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Postby iceman5 » Mon Aug 01, 2005 4:04 pm

Short stack players using this system dont play Q4s. I play tournament style poker against them. Think about how you would play a tourney as opposed to a cash game.
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Postby Sunbob » Mon Aug 01, 2005 5:05 pm

Thanks Ice. Yes, after I posted I realized the Q4 example was a poor one.

As far as the trny style play - that I can do. I'm doing better in the SnGs right now anyway.
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Postby shoesnatcher » Mon Aug 01, 2005 10:54 pm

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Postby CocaCola » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:43 am

i had no idea there were good players with small stacks.. i always considered them to be a bit fishy, like they were scared money, and try to set them all in when i hit something decent.

push- this means to go all-in, or to bet aggressively?
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Postby Magz » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:52 am

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Interesting feedback

Postby puterguy76 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:25 pm

First off CocaCola and shoesnatcher, you aren't accomplishing anything special by setting Ed Miller short stacks all in. You don't have to slow play against this strategy because if anybody is playing this system they were all in as soon as they raised preflop, even if they didn't actually go all in yet. Weather you check and call or put them all in yourself your results will be the same. If you outflopped them then congratulations, you win 20 big bets.
One advantage of this system is that nobody is gonna bluff me. If I have TT and the board comes out A K 2, I'm still going all in. The only way you're gonna have me beat is if you got the A or K or a higher pocket pair or if you chase me down and suckout. If I Had a big stack you probably could bluff me out with a pair of twos. I find I win a lot of pots in situations like this that I normally wouldn't if I had a larger stack. People somehow have it in their heads that they can bluff me because I"m short stacked. They assume I'm playing with scared money and that I'm worried about losing a few bucks. The fact is, because I'm short stacked I can't be bluffed. If I have any kind of a hand I'm all in.
The backbone behind Ed's System is in pushing preflop edges. If I raise with TT preflop, I have a preflop edge against every hand except higher pocket pairs. Even if you outflop me and win that particular hand I will still win long term by pushing these small edges against most hands people call raises preflop with. If I raise 25-30% of my stack preflop and you call my raise and hit a flop you're gonna get paid off on that hand. It's just that simple! You did nothing special. You didn't outplay me. You don't deserve a medal. You got lucky and you deserve to get rewarded which is exactly what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna reward you with 20/bb. Don't spend it all in one place!
People love to gamble and when a short stack pushes all in and they have two overs on the flop a lot of players will chase them down and pay them off because it's only a few more bucks! By playing short stacked I essentially lead undiciplined players into temptation. Temptation = mistakes and mistakes = profit. It amazes me how often I get called down by hands like AK or worse, offering maybe 2 - 1 pot odds and no implied odds, when I hold a high pocket pair. I've even had people call me down with hands as bad as 72 just because it was only a few more dollars. I love that excuse! Now that is some horrible play, but I'm happy to take it. The only time you're even money to chase me is if you have a strong draw and even then, you're only breaking even against me in the long run. Isn't poker about making money? Who wants to break even?
I am never offering implied odds which is one thing large stacks hate! I realize i'm an annoyance at the table because how can someone expect to make any money off me? With a Large stack I might double up against one player, but with a short stack I've been in situations where I've tripled up or even quadrulpled up against 3 or 4 players. I love getting 3 to 1 on my money with strong hands. I can't say I've ever got odds like that with a large stack. I'm ammused by how so many people actually downgrade their games just for the opportunity to play against me. If my short stack causes you to play a mediocre hand, then I welcome you to come at me every time I raise preflop.
I know this isn't exactly playing poker. And I'm sure I make a lot of enemies at the tables, but until I have a bankroll and the poker skills to feel confident playing for high enough stakes to pay the bills, I'll probably stick with what works. For now I'm learning the game and using bonus money to build my bankroll, I find this system to be a safe way to play. On a bad day I might break even. As a matter of fact breaking even is my primary focus since my profit comes from bonuses. I never have to make any tough decisions and if you regularly bonus whore this makes 4 tabling a breeze. If I combine what I can make playing this way with a bonus overlay, I can easily make $20 per hour at the 25NL tables. That's as good as playing 10/20 holdem and that's not bad considering I don't have anywhere near the bankroll to play at that level. But then again, that's just my experiences so far. I might have to eat my words in a few months :)
Last edited by puterguy76 on Mon Apr 24, 2006 11:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby iceman5 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:41 pm

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I agree

Postby puterguy76 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:10 pm

I agree with what you're saying Iceman. I actually consider myself to be an above average player and can play a large stack relatively well. I only choose not to at this time due to having a bankroll that can't handle many down swings. Losing $25 in one hand has more of an emotional impact when your bankroll can't handle the swings of a few bad sessions. It pisses me off when I lose with pocket aces to a garbage hand when it puts me negative $25 but if I lose $5 bucks I actually don't care as much. So I guess another advantage of this system is mood management since I don't tilt as easy from a $5 suckout. Tilt can potentially contribute to additional losses so by avoiding tilt saves me money and money saved is money earned. ;)
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