The forum he is referring to is 2+2. He has attacked me for no apparent reason over there many times with it all coming to a head about 2 weeks ago when I finally fought back. The guy seems to be some sort of god over there and everyone bows down to him and I have no idea why. Ive read alot of his posts. His poker advice is fine, but he is an absolute jerk in so many ways its hard to even describe.

Hes the most arrogant person Ive ever "met". He believes hes smarter than everyone else. He is apparently in medical school. WOW! He must be smart. I scored a 1390 on the SAT back in the day. Im not exactly a dummy either but I dont go around talking down to everyone.

Everything Ive posted about my personal life and my poker life is absolutely true. I have no reason to lie to anyone. Tetsuo and I didnt start this site to prove I was a poker guru and to try to draw people here and get rich or anything like that. It was quite the opposite. We started it because UPF was going to hell and so many people were asking me questions at UPF that we thought it was the perfect opportunity to start a new community that we could mold (because UPF was going to hell fast). Anyone can start a new site, but without some sort of member base, it will never get off the ground. There were enough people who we thought would follow me here that it was the right time to do it. My point is that we didnt start the site with me claiming to be a poker guru to draw people here. People came here because they believed in me already. I didnt sell myself to anyone. I proved myself to them first.

1) I have most certainly played around a million hands.
2) I have most certainly been winning at the rates Ive stated.
3) KennyG knows my screen name and has played with me many times and Im quite sure he can attest to my poker skill or lack thereof
4) Aisthesis played with me many times back when I was playing $100NL and he can do the same.

Ive spent about $5K on my vacation and still have over $40K in my roll. I dont need any money from backers. Im doing this for reasons Ive already stated and a few other reasons that I havent stated. It might or might not be a good idea. As far as I know, nothing like this has been done before. Im sure people have used borrowed money before, but I dont know if theres been a project like this where numerous members of a community stake a player and all results are posted in a journal and members of the community go thru the ups and downs together. Fimbulwinter is telling you guys not to do it. Thats fine. Dont do it it you dont want to. I dont need your money. Ive been advised by several friends of mine that I should not be doing this. They think its a mistake on MY part. Not yours.

I made $5K last month playing 3 tables of $1/$2. Thats not really all that much money if you break it down.

I played about 100 hours. Thats $50/hr. Playing 3 tables thats a win rate of about 14BB / 100 hands. 7PTBBs. Thats slightly below my long term win rate for those stakes.

If I hit my goal for the 1st month of this project, my half of the profits will be less than $5K. Theres really no big incentive for me to do it. In all honesty, Im having second thoughts about it myself. Ive already collected most of them money and if I change my mind in the next few days, obviously I'll send all the money back.

Im not going to reply to all of fimbul winters points because I dont need to defend myself but I will mention a few things.

1) Last I heard (from his posts) he was playing $200NL not 4 tables of $1000NL. As a matter of fact , he was wasting bandwidth by complaining about getting all in with AA preflop and losing. A player of his calibre should know better than that.

2) He says that I post bad advice? Ive asked him to pick a post of mine and tell me what advice is bad and he cant do it. Last time i did that he said my article on check raising was bad advice. WOW. That really narrows it down. Whats bad about it? He wont say. Its just bad. Those strategies happen to work, but whatever.

3) He doesnt give advice to people. He just tells them they misplayed their hands. He doesnt give specific advice. he gives general advice and posts formulas and things like that. Once again trying to prove hes smarter than everyone else. Knowing all the math is great but putting it to use is a whole differerent thing. NL is about "feel" alot more than it is about math. Limit poker is about math.

4) He says alot of the regulars there agree with him that I stink. There are at least 4 of these regulars who Ive played against without them knowing it. I know their screen names and they dont know mine. They do seem to know what theyre talking about when they posts hands or post advice, but in the heat of the battle, these specific 4 guys Im talking about dont seem to be able to follow their own advice. Ive seen them make horrific rookie mistakes. Ive busted 2 of them multiple times. Playing NL and talking about playing NL are 2 different things.

The whole flaming war at 2+2 started over me questioning a different regular when he refused to fold his KK preflop. It was the most obvious case of KK vs AA that Ive ever seen. Most people at 2+2 agree that you should never fold KK preflop no matter what. So when I said he shouldve folded, I got flamed and like a fight with your wife, when the fight starts, all kinds of things that happened along time agio get thrown in the fight.

The funny thing is that all of these people said things like "I know hes got AA, but Im not folding". I said to fold and move on. Well, guess what, he DID have AA. Everyone knew it and they wouldnt fold anyway. Why? Then several people started in with the math. It turned out that in this particular hand, if the guy had less than AA at least 29% of the time, then pushing in with the KK was correct. Well, with the preflop action which included 2 seperate min reraises by the villain preflop, I was about 95-99% sure he had AA. I was right. I guess that makes me an idiot for being right. I posted that I would fold....before results were revealed.

3 times in the past 6 weeks or so, Ive had AA and got reraised by a player that I knew was a 2+2er. I didnt even try to get tricky. I just pushed all in knowing full well that a 2+2er wouldnt fold KK and I was right.

There are alot of really good players at 2+2, but there are also alot of people who are nowhere near as good as they think they are.

Let me finish by saying this. I have NEVER claimed to be a poker guru. I dont think Im the best player in the world. However, there is not one doubt in my mind that Im one of the best $200NL players in the world. KennyG has made the same claim and Ive played with him enough to agree with him. If you want to call us cocky for making these statements...go ahead. We're just stating the truth.

WIll I be able to win consistently and regularly in the $1000NL games? I dont know. If I was as confident about that as I am in my skill in the $200NL game, then I would be an idiot to sell half of my action now wouldnt I?

I have more than enough bankroll for the game, but Im selling half of my action to lower my risk while I find out. Ive already said it more than once. If you dont trust me or dont believe it will be successful, theres an easy sollution. Dont get involved.

For what its worth, I mustve proven myself to quite a few people because Ive received offers for a total of over 4 times the amount of money Ive asked for. I turned down one guy who wanted to stake the entire $5K.

It takes one hell of alot of trust for people to be willing to send you fairly large sums of money when theyve never even met you and I appreciate the faith you guys have shown in me.

A lot of these 2+2 goons are like college professors vs industry gurus. Those who can, do - those who can't, teach or preach.

No offense to those teachers who *can do* but get more satisfaction from teaching. Sadly they are by far the minority.

Ice...I have only been associated with this site for a little over a month, but I must confess, I think you and a few other of the posters on this forum are some of the best NL players I have encountered.

It is an honor to belong to your site.

-twelver

I can't understand the argument that just because a person has won a certain amount in poker that it should be an easy mathematical decision to move up to the next level; I can totally understand why Ice has taken the decision to spread his risk a little thinner, for financial and psychological reasons, before moving up to 1000NL.

I find myself in a very similar position - my current hourly winrate is roughly the same, I maybe play a bit less so I've won perhaps a bit less over the last year or two, but I still have won an ample amount and proved my winrate and abilities in the 100, 200 and even 400 games, but still the idea of losing a couple of K in one hand doesn't appeal to me. I've not moved up to the $1k PLO games because I am doing OK in the smaller ones, spreading my risk and multitabling, and simply think I wouldn't feel uncomfortable with that sort of money at stake regularly in one hand.

I am a big believer in comfort and confidence being a huge benefit in terms of concentration and focus at the poker table. If you're playing a game where you're not comfortable, unconfident, poorly BRed or playing scared money, even if you have an ample amount to play the game, then you lessen your chances of winning. If Ice is going to be playing the 1000NL games uncomfortably with his own money, it simply doesn't make financial sense. If he can spread his risks by selling a little of his action, not only does he reduce the amount of cash he's personally risking, but he potentially improves his own attitude and ability to play the game to the best of his mental abilities. Makes good sense to me.

Whilst I haven't played above $200NL online personally, from what I've seen ice seems to have a very good temperament for the game and the few times I've played with him he seems tight and makes very few errors. I'm sure he'll still be getting his money in with the best of it in the 1000NL games.

I wouldn't give much credence to people who engage in forum vendettas, even less so if they are a new and unknown character on the boards.

My two pence anyhow

Monk
xxxxx

Wow. This thread has become very "special". I'm almost speachless, and for anyone that knows me will know that that doesn't happen very often.

I wrote a post on this thread shortly after it was started, trying to give Iceman another idea on how to move up to the 5-10 NL tables. This post I wrote was strictly to help Iceman with his "conscience". I thought that maybe he would feel bad if he lost other players money when/if he hits a bad run. At the time, he was willing to take that risk because the people backing him were willing to take the risk with him. IMO, that was a very valid point and the discussion was over.
As far Iceman "selling shares of himself", it's not for me. The only people I'd give money to play poker with is my two brothers. That doesn't mean I'm going to write a post on this, or any other forum, insulting people asking for money or giving people money to play poker with. People can do whatever they want with their money, because frankly, it's their money. If you think that what Iceman or his backers or doing is wrong, then figure out a way of saying it in a constructive way or keep it to yourself. Writing posts that insult people wastes all of our time and just shows everyone how immature you really are.
To all of the people who don't believe Iceman or his win/lose statements, I have a question to ask: What do you care? If you're not giving him money, then what difference does it make wether he is lying or not. The only person you need to worry about as far a wins/losses is yourself.
Ice, you don't need to prove to any of us what your win rate or anything else is. You asked people for their money to back you, so they may be asking for some info. That is an acceptable request and I know that you are supplying these people with the answers they need. As far as knowing you are a quality poker player, anybody who has read your posts, talked to you personally, or played with you before will find out for themselves.
I do not write very many posts on this forum or any other. Most of the time, other people have made the point that I would've made and I leave it at that. One thing that I do alot of is read the threads and I think that this site is above an beyond the best for poker discussion I've found. No matter what your skill level is, how long you've been playing, or how "novice" your questions and answers may be, you will not get slammed by people who's ego's have gotten to big. You should not have to worry about your comments being berated by some moron who thinks he/she is god's gift to a card room. This site allows people at any skill level to enjoy, discuss and learn about the game of poker in a friendly and intelligent manner. I commend the people running this site and their dilegence in keeping it a friendly, fun and enjoyable environment.
I just have one last thing to say. You guys out there just learning about poker, your questions are always welcome to me. You are a value to every intelligent poker player. You open new ways of thinking and keep the "veterans" knowledge sharp. You challenge us to back up what we say, and think "outside the box".

Chris

P.S.- Lenoir Crew Rocks

I have $4000 collected and 2 more $500 players have committed and are in the process of making transfers. I want to give all the stakers a last chance to let me know if you dont want to be publicly listed as a staker. If you want to be listed as anonymous, let me know by PM, otherwise your name will be in all entries of the project journal.

Nobody has mentioned that they dont want to be identified as of yet.

I have accounts all over the place and different people have made transfers to all different sites, so I'll need another day or 3 to get the money all transferred to where I need it before I begin.

I hope to begin play on Fri / Sat.