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AKo - is it any good?! If so when???

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AKo - is it any good?! If so when???

Postby rush » Tue Sep 13, 2005 2:48 am

Hiya,
I'm having problems with playing AK.

Normally I just raise it up preflop in any position if it's just limped/folded to me. I'll flat call any opener preflop, but fold to a raise+reraise. I don't ever reraise with it, unless I *know* I'll get called by an isolated weakling prone to play AQ/KQ stuff for a raise+call.

I do make a profit with AKo (or AKs) when I'm in the lead.

Problem, when I call i position, I don't really see how that's going to make any money. I sure don't. Pretty much break even in fact.

If the PFR bets out, and I miss the A or K- well I tend to fold unless I've got an exciting flush-draw. Then I reraise.

If I hit my K for TPTK, and the PFR bets out I'm likely to win a decent (not BIG) pot, but sometimes will lose a big one... I'm too reluctant to lay down my TPTK when it does hit, since that's the main reason I call with it...

I'll beat any untripped 99-QQ (24), tie the AK's (6), and lose to AA (3) and KK (1). Of course I'll beat all missed AQ/AJ, 76s etc PFR hands.

If the Ace hits, it is somewhat better. I "only" lose to AA (1), but can't win a big pot from any untripped PP's. I just risk to lose vs various sets and other sneaky PFR hits.

Thus, the minor winnings I make off of it just barely keeps it at even money.

The real value, for me, comes from AK blending in well with the small-mid pp's I also call with. I like to call with any PP, 22-TT (54) and the AK (16). So whenever I play back, it isn't allways with trips.

Is there any smart way to adjust the AK-play to the caliber of the PRF? The tight players who only open with JJ/AK surely are not so attractive to flat call with AK, unless it is ONLY for the value of being a little deceptive ?!
A LAG opening with a range of hands would be a better spot. But perhaps it should then be reraised preflop?

?!

Cheers,
Rush
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Postby The A Train » Tue Sep 13, 2005 3:24 am

Rush, I've been having real trouble with AK, suited or otherwise. It is by far my worst hand. AQ however is a big winner for me. Go figure. I obviously have trouble putting down TPTK to a big reraise even when I think the odds are that I am behind. Will be interested to see what others have to say on this topic as improving on this hand will plug a huge leak of mine.
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Postby reveen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:35 am

AK offsuit is my biggest loser also. I posted about this a few days ago and vowed to myself that I will not lose another stack with TPTK.

Guess what.
Last night I lost $45ish to.... drumroll please...... TPTK.

Sigh.......

$50Nl at Pacific

Villan bets $2
I call with [Ah] [Kc]

Flop
[Ks] [Qd] [2h]
I bet $5 and get called

Turn
[7s]
I bet $10 and get called.
I start to smell a rat but have put him on AQ at this point.

River
[2d]
I check, he goes all in for his remaining $27

I called. Any guessing on what he was holding?
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:45 am

KQ
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Postby reveen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:56 am

nope
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Postby k3nt » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:19 am

22 or QQ or maybe even AA.

Yeah, he has AA.
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Postby Zuccala » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:20 am

I am thinkin A2
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Postby reveen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:13 am

He had Queens. :(

Anybody play it too different?

I am playing Ak off so badly that its starting to become a freaking joke. A bad bad joke.
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Postby bobby » Tue Sep 13, 2005 11:39 am

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Postby k3nt » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:01 pm

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Postby Stoneburg » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:15 pm

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Postby reveen » Tue Sep 13, 2005 12:29 pm

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I reraise pre

Postby Proplayer44 » Tue Sep 13, 2005 5:30 pm

The weather is here, wish you were beautiful!!!! Jimmy Buffet
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Postby The A Train » Tue Sep 13, 2005 8:45 pm

Proplayer. If you reraise $6 that is $8 that you have put in preflop. You then get a good flop for your hand and do what? Do you check/raise, raise and fold to a reraise? How much do you raise or checkraise? You would have been pot committed now I would think. I have a lot of trouble with this hand and even after reading the above aren't sure how to get away from this hand. I am trying to keep the pot small with AK now. Win a lot of little pots or lose little pots. Don't get involved in a big pot unless I am against a super LAG player and even then I get caught when they have the goods.
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Postby black_knight6 » Tue Sep 13, 2005 10:08 pm

Aside from being able to let go of KJo from EP, I think that how players handle AKo (and even AKs) is the litmus test between being a competent player, and being a very good/great player. Why? Because this is maybe the starting hand that requires the greatest post-flop finesse to come out with maximized profits. I agree so much with what people like Ice suggest as far as knowing when to back down (especially in the absence of a read on your opponent(s)) - and AK is the testing ground for your ability to do that.

First, you have to recognize when AK overcards is still powerful, and when it's total junk - this requires knowing your table image, your opponents normal tendancies, and their tendancies towards your image. For example, if you're in position and you open raised to 4-5x and got a MP caller and it comes Q high: how will he react if he checks for you to put in your 2/3pot continuation bet? Will he almost indescriminately call? Will he call but lay down when you fire a 2nd bullet on the turn? Or do you even check the flop and see what he does on the turn?

Second, you hit your K and he leads into you. Or, you hit your K and get check-raised. Or, you hit your K, get check called, then led into...or check-raised on the turn. Are you able to feel out when you're up against a guy who will go broke with TPWK, or KQ? Or is he representing at least two pair? When is it right to call even though you're confident he has two pair? A good rule of thumb is to not be willing to go broke with TPTK (without a good read on your opponent)...though there are times I've reraised All In with AK when it came A high because I KNEW he had a worse ace (AJ actually...on FTP by the way;)).

Third, can you lay it down when you flop top two pair?! This is harder since you have outs to anyone but AA (though thin against KK).

How do you manage co-ordinated flops - ones that may have people with OESD and flush draws? How do you manage when YOU have a flush draw? A lot of people notice that they do WORSE with AKs...mostly because they'll call with overcards and a BACKdoor flush draw when it's just best to muck.

This is just a SHORT list of the huge possibilities unique to AK - and why I think that AK is the testing hand for post-flop poker skill.
rhys
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