Anyone push, limp or fold this preflop, or take any other line than I did?

PokerStars Game #5711404686: Tournament #28903211, $55+$5 Hold'em No Limit - Level IV (50/100) - 2006/07/28 - 13:20:38 (ET)
Table '28903211 1' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: BOOF22 (2245 in chips)
Seat 2: liverfc (2005 in chips)
Seat 3: GodlikeRoy (1490 in chips)
Seat 5: darinvg (2965 in chips)
Seat 6: msamadeu (1095 in chips)
Seat 7: xavsit (2980 in chips)
Seat 8: Fbks_Fool (720 in chips)
msamadeu: posts small blind 50
xavsit: posts big blind 100
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to GodlikeRoy
Fbks_Fool: folds
BOOF22: folds
liverfc: folds
GodlikeRoy: raises 200 to 300
darinvg: folds
msamadeu: folds
xavsit: calls 200
*** FLOP ***
xavsit: checks
GodlikeRoy: bets 500
xavsit: calls 500
*** TURN ***
xavsit: checks
GodlikeRoy: checks
*** RIVER ***
xavsit: checks
GodlikeRoy: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
xavsit: shows [7h Ah] (a flush, Ace high)
GodlikeRoy: mucks hand
xavsit collected 1650 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1650 | Rake 0
Board [6d Qh 3h Jh 6c]
Seat 1: BOOF22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: liverfc folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: GodlikeRoy mucked [Ts Tc]
Seat 5: darinvg (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: msamadeu (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: xavsit (big blind) showed [7h Ah] and won (1650) with a flush, Ace high
Seat 8: Fbks_Fool folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Hello,

I'd either push the flop or check it down.

Whether or not he had the odds to chase is one thing, but your bet gave him the excuse to call.

If you push the flop you are effectively betting against him having the queen.

If he calls a push on the flop you will either double up or take it there and then.

The 500 bet leaves you with 700 chips meaning you are going to have to take a few risks to make the money if you lose the pot. Worse it gives an excuse for calls from the flush draw who then gets to see another card. For some reason he checks it down which let you off the hook, would you have let it go if had bet 700 on the turn or river?

I'm all about cont bets, but I don't think you have the luxury here (unless it's a post oak type small 200 bet on the flop).

As played, shove on the flop.

If you had slightly less chips, like 1200, then shoving pre-flop would be best. Here, it's close between shoving and standard raising. If you standard raise, you should be shoving many flops though, including this one.

That's an interesting way to look at it Sunbob, but I'm not sure of the application of the implied odds in this circumstance.

The odds you state are correct, but it's not true that calling the 500 only allows him to see the turn and therefore the odds should only be calculated on that. Yes there's a chance that it will cost 700 more to see the river but there is also a chance (as happened) that the river will be "free" making it only 500 to see both cards.

Calculating the exact price to see both cards is not possible if there is action to take place after the turn however the most it can be is the additional 700 giving the same 1200 to see both cards (maximum) as the push would have with the added bonus to him of seeing the turn more cheaply. Why villain failed to then extract the 700 chips on the river is a mistake but Roy could have been in a position where he put the remaining 700 chips in the pot once behind (making a mistake himself) I don't know if he is good enough to lay down on the river once the flush draw hit.

Essentially if it's a mistake for him to call the 500 I don't think it can be correct for him to call 1200.

But I'd check it down more often than not anyway.

First hello from another guy coming from the forum we dont speak of.

This is a very interesting hand imo...

In this hand I don't see how we can price out flush draws, with the pot big already there's no way anyone can fold a 12-outer here (maybe even a 15-outer if our bet is a bluff)

Like Irexes says pushing is an option, however I dont see what the push accomplishes that a small bet doesn't. We're probably ahead on the flop (against a loose player), but we dont have a monster so I want to keep the pot small. We're also in position and pushing gives up that advantage.

I wish you didn't post the results here. I think it's skewing some of the responses.

First, a misconception - push-botting does not mean pushing all-in on the flop. Push-botting is about small stacks compared to the blinds and making +EV pushes pre-flop.

If we knew our opponent had a flush draw, then it would be easy to get away from the hand on the turn. But we don't! So we don't know if a heart is a scare card. We don't have enough of a stack to deal with the intricacies of post-flop playing here. If he played straight forward enough that he'd fold all hands except a flush draw or top pair, then it's easy to bet 2/3 pot on the flop then check it down. But opponents call with many more hands than those!

All we know so far is BB has called a 3x raise from late position. It's tough to narrow his holdings (without seeing the results here). If you bet and he calls, he could have a variety of pocket pairs, a straight draw, A-high, a flush draw, bottom pair, middle pair, top pair... we don't really know yet. The majority of the time when I push here, I'm called by something like 77 or A6 and double up, or they just fold.