Here's some good profiling

http://dvorak.org/blog/images/katrina/

Why didn't you quote the rest of it? The part about how the first photo caption states that the black guy was looting because the photographer saw him go into the store and take that stuff out which is why he called it looting. Whereas the white folks were said to have found the stuff they had because nobody saw them take it out of the store.

This does nothing to prove your points about racial profiling. If anything it hurts your arguements.

The race problem in the US is basically the worst in the developed world...here in the UK I live in an inner city area of Manchester (a big city by UK standards) - about 6m folks within 30 minutes drive...and my street is genuinely mixed - Whites (polish, irish and germans to name a few), blacks (UK born, Trinidadians, Asians (Pakistani, Bangledeshi, Indian and Chinese) etc.

The States is much more segregated along racial lines.

When I went to the States once I was in DC (visiting the Smithsonian and a couple of friends I have out there) and thought I catch a movie one night when my friends were otherwise engaged.

I could see that there was a movie theatre a couple of stops along on the Metro in a Mall..so I went - Independence Day I think was the movie..this is maybe 15 minutes away from the US Center of Govt - I was the only white person in the theatre (which was full)

That level of segregation is really shocking to see - it strikes me that the issue of slavery and its effects - both economic and cultural - haven't really been dealt with and in a society teeming with guns and disaffected inner city youth it's hardly surprising that there are crime issues surrounding black ghettos..

Kent, very well said.

One of the things we have that makes us different is a Constitution that includes a Bill of Rights. Elected Officials, Soldiers, LE, and others swear to uphold this Constitution for a reason.

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin

Sorry I missed out on most of this discussion.

I have to say I agree with the Iceman on most of it.

As I was reading Iceman's post, I kept waiting for him to write, "you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall!!!" (Col. Nathan R. Jessup).

What Iceman is saying, I think, is that in general this country doesn't give enough resources to law enforcement to do their jobs, and/or handcuffs them in stupid ways when they need to do their jobs. He may be correct in this. I certainly wouldn't want to argue against an expert on that subject!

But as he admits, he hasn't really kept up with this particular story. He's just going from his general experiences.

Problem is, this story has nothing to do with Iceman's experiences. This is brand new stuff. Nobody has ever pushed this far before. No president has ever claimed these kinds of powers before.

There is a reason we have a judicial system in this country, and that it is separate from the executive function. This is absolutely critical to us continuing to be the country we have always been. We are not a police state. And believe me, people, we don't want to become one.

Take a minute and look into the FISA courts. Do a google search.

These are courts that will give the administration pretty much carte blanche to do anything that is remotely related to the war on terror. You've heard of how a grand jury can pretty much "indict a ham sandwich." Well, these FISA courts will pretty much let you wiretap a ham sandwich -- give them ANY reason even vaguely related to national security, and they'll let you have your warrant to do your wiretap. They have had literally thousands of requests come before them, and have apparently turned down just a handful.

Yet the Bush administration has refused to allow even this much oversight of what they are doing. Why? What are they hiding? Why insist on circumventing a court that will basically rubber-stamp any wiretap for any purpose that is even vaguely legitimate?

What has this administration done that they believe even a FISA court would not allow to be done?