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Check raised all in....hmmmmm

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Check raised all in....hmmmmm

Postby iceman5 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:47 am

$1/$2 NL...6 max

Cutoff opens with a min raise. He raises 17% but most of them are min raises. He doesnt do it with a pair like most people. Ive seen him do it with A5, A6s, KQ, 63s.

I reraise to $16 with [Ah][Kh]. He calls. I started with $204 and he has me covered.

Pot $35. Flop comes [Qh][Jh][5d]. He checks and I bet $20. He check raises all in. Who calls this?
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Postby k3nt » Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:52 am

At least half the time, he has two hearts and you have him destroyed. The rest of the time you have outs. So I think it's a clear call.
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Postby ua1176 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:29 pm

i think he's either got QJ or a lower flush draw. you're almost even money (45-55) against QJ, and you crush the lower flush draw (4:1). i dont think he plays a set like this....though you did say he's weird, so i dont know.

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Postby Stoneburg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:35 pm

Set or two-pair most of the time. Against two-pair it is even money to call but against a set you're in deep trouble, you'll only suck out 1/3 of the time. Obviously you beat him if he only has a pair or a lower draw.

I probably call this even though I think it is *probably* -EV simply because if I fold I am asking to be bullied. I'll take this likely -EV for image reasons, to show him that I will call an all-in with a draw or Ace high (which I of course won't most of the time but I don't want people to make big bluffs at me SH).
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Postby J L Fiasco » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:39 pm

If villain is known to play sets this way I fold, you'e a 2:1 dog vs a set. You said you haven't seen him min raise pocket pairs, so unless he's being tricky, set seems unlikely. Having said that, his all in on a draw heavy board looks like he just wants to end it and take the pot down now. Maybe he has 2 pair, that's a close to even money situation if he has something like QJ, you being at a small disadvantage.

Without knowing more about the villain, ie his VPIP, does he bluff alot, what a check raise all in from him means, It's tough to know where you stand. I call and hope he doesn't have a set. Everything else he might have is close to a coinfilp or you having him dominated.
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Postby J L Fiasco » Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:41 pm

If villain is known to play sets this way I fold, you'e a 2:1 dog vs a set. You said you haven't seen him min raise pocket pairs, so unless he's being tricky, set seems unlikely. Having said that, his all in on a draw heavy board looks like he just wants to end it and take the pot down now. Maybe he has 2 pair, that's a close to even money situation if he has something like QJ, you being at a small disadvantage.

Without knowing more about the villain, ie his VPIP, does he bluff alot, what a check raise all in from him means, It's tough to know where you stand. I call and hope he doesn't have a set. Everything else he might have is close to a coinfilp or you having him dominated.
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Postby laynegt » Fri Nov 11, 2005 1:18 pm

i don't see how you can fold. you have 12 outs to the nuts (ignoring gutshot straight flushes) getting 3:2. this guy could have anything.
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Postby kennyg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 2:34 pm

high variance play to call this bet......
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Postby Xaston » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:38 pm

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Postby Chris-bg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 3:42 pm

Depends if I'm feeling lucky! :lol:
I usually call such hands, but that might be a weakness on my side.
I think the times you dominate his lower flush (maybe straith flush) draw will pay for the times you lose to a set, though.
Still, you need a better read for a definite decision.
But as I said , I rarely fold such huge draws. They're just too pretty! ;)
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Postby Stoneburg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:32 pm

Seems like all of us also forgot the times he is on a stupid bluff with something hopeless like AT.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:38 pm

I called. He had [Ts][9s]. He turned an 8 and I rivered a flush.

his name is "Doinkster" and I couldnt help but type

"DOINK!!!"
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Postby Stoneburg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 4:44 pm

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Postby iceman5 » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:01 pm

Stony, he had an open ended str8 draw. He wasnt bluffing.
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Postby Stoneburg » Fri Nov 11, 2005 5:10 pm

I call that a stupid bluff. Pushing with the idiot end of a straight draw when there is a flush draw out and you probably have no fold equity. He figures to get called most of the time and this time he had 6 outs.


Hmm... after checking the numbers I'm a bit surprised to see that he had a whooping 23% chance to win that pot, I would have guessed 15-20%. Still a pretty stupid move though. My only point was that we shouldn't dismiss the chance that you're way ahead. :)
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