$50NL 6-max @ Prima. im big stack with $175....maniac to my right has $100. he's absolutely crazy. plays almost every hand. pushed all in against my flopped straight with 8-3 offsuit (he had a pair of 8's on the flop and check/called my bets until the river). raises/reraises with nothing constantly. bluffs at 3-flush boards and 4-straight boards.

he also checks and calls a lot of flops. his aggression comes out mostly on turn or river when he's first to act or when someone has checked to him.

he raises to $2 from UTG+1. i call in CO w/ [Qd]. his preflop raise means nothing. if no one else raises, he will. if someone else does raise, he'll call.

flop: [9s][8s]
pot: $4.75

check/'check.

turn is a brick. he bets $7. i call.

river

he pushes in for his remaning $90. i have the 2nd-nut flush. what do y'all think?

jon

I doubt I could fold that against this guy

yeah---
Since you have decent notes on the guy, it's a mandatory call for me....

It would have the ol' heart pounding though!!

what if i held the instead of the ? would you call then? or the ? at what point would your move change from "call" to "fold" ?

jon

obvious call with the K ... I might call with any spade. You would think he woudl have bet the flop if he had one spade at all. However he might have checked to slow play a made flush.

I would call up to the Q, at least there's just too better flushes , but in this particular case , call , he might just have it but if he's that crazy than you have to call

CALL

We know you called. What did he have?

yes, of course i called. he had [Tc]. good to know that not many are folding here. i still think i should have folded. not that it means much...but the river bet-to-pot size ratio was larger than the past moves he'd made, even though i'd seen him play almost exactly the same way with junk when the board was scary. i actually figured that if he had a legitimate hand, it was more likely that he'd flopped a flush. and based on the sheer number of suited cards this guy played.....i was ahead more often than not.

ah well...still running very well the past week. up 8 buy-ins despite this nasty hand.

one last question. does the fact that our stacks are each 200bb+ change anything?

jon

Of course the large stacks affect your decisions, but you said he pushed in earlier with just a pair of 8s when you had flopped s atr8 which means the board was very coordinated. Hes made all kinds of maniacal plays. Hes going to have a real hand sometimes and he will play it the same way, but you cant fold the 2nd nuts there. If you do that agaisnt a guy like this, then you should leave when you double up and play him with a smaller stack (on another table or another day)

Being the dissenter here. I don't care who this guy is, I fold in a heartbeat. The auto all-in push on the river scare card is rarely a bluff, ever. I know you've got info on the guy but the pot is what like $18? You're calling $90 here? Not a chance. Maybe it's just me but I would never make that call.

How about this JJ.....preflop, the pot is 0.75. Maniac open pushes for $90, You have KK. What do you do? Dont tell me youre folding.

You have the 2nd nuts which is just like the 2nd nut flush hand except with KK you can still get outdrawn any number of ways so its a weaker hand than the 2nd nut flush. With the 2nd nut flush, the cards are out. There is one card that can beat you and hes a maniac who has pushed with lots of weak hands.

Come on Ice, that is the worst analogy of all time . It's not the same situation at all. The difference between pre-flop and the river is that pre-flop you have no information. This hand has been played street by street down to the river, regardless of how agressive and loose some guy is, he's telling you he likes his hand to even be still in by the river. I don't know, call me weak, but I would never call that bet.

I would fold there, why risk all that money with the 2nd nut flush when it's so easy to be beat? I want a spot where I'm pretty sure I'm ahead. With crazy players who have large stacks, patience pays off. You only need to witn 2-3 big hands to get all their money.

Exactly, but patience doesnt mean waiting for the nuts. The 2nd nuts will do the majority of the time.

I agree with ice, 2nd nuts is fine here.
I could see him doing this with any spade.

200BB is not that deep. I would only start worrying about this around 400BB.
Just like you'd start to think more about set-over-set at that depth.

And even so against this player it's an instacall, unless you're really risk averse.