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AA vs KQ and lose on the river

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AA vs KQ and lose on the river

Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:29 pm

I don't know why this seems to happen a lot to me.

FTP NL50

I get AA in the SB and make the standard raise to $2 and the BB calls. Now heads up. The flop is Q high and I bet the pot. He calls. Jack on the Turn and again I bet the pot and he calls. Then the River is a King. I don't like the King since there are 3 face cards now on the board but no flush possible.

I put him all in for his last $15 since I am going to call anyway. He calls and shows KQo.

I type 'nice hand'

Then he types 'sorry dude I did not know you had Aces.' 'SB so you might have had a lower pair.'

I think to myself. Humm. Why would I be betting the pot if I could not beat a Queen?

Now I know why players call other players retards out of frustration.

He played a few more minutes and left the table.

I lost all my profit on this one hand. "I know AA is only one pair."
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Postby black_knight6 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:38 pm

Why would he think that? Because at that level, and many others, blind vs blind is just about brute aggression and top pair in the BB feels REALLY solid even if the SB keeps firing. I don't know if I think you misplayed it...I'd very strongly consider OVER betting the flop and again the turn to put him to a tougher decision than letting him call the last 15 when he's hit two pair.
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Postby T-Rod » Wed Sep 28, 2005 12:50 pm

I think the problem is your turn play. On the turn you are either checking or pushing. I hate betting the pot on the turn.

You raised pf, got called, and bet the pot on the flop. You've shown LOTS of aggression, AND you've been called. What do you put your opponent on right here? He could reasonably have QQ or even a smaller set. Most important, you don't know if you're still ahead here so I'm looking for pot control on the turn.

If you BTP on the turn, you've basically pot committed him (and you) on the river. Yet as mentioned above, you're in a gray zone as to who's leading, and you just have TP. Yuck. If you want to BTP on the turn, just push it in. At least you'll get fold equity.

Mike, I've seen lots of posts where you are frustrated by opponent's sucking out on you (and its almost always because you've BTP on flop and turn and thus lost a big pot). I say try checking the turn---ALOT. Try a session where you check lots of turns and see how it opens up your game. It certainly makes river decisions easier and cheaper.

Tim
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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:56 pm

Some days you are the bug and some days you are the windshield. :D
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Postby k3nt » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:16 pm

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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:19 pm

Some days you are the bug and some days you are the windshield. :D
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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:30 pm

Some days you are the bug and some days you are the windshield. :D
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Postby poker2006 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:44 pm

You have to play the hand in a way that you don't feel commited on the river. Maybe bet 1/2 pot on the turn, chk-call something reasonable on the river. Or chk the turn, I like that play as well.

My point is that if you play it and feel commited, you're giving him better odds. When he calls your $10 turn bet for ex, he's losing $10 if he misses his draw, but winning the pot and the rest of your stack if he hits.

This happened to me a lot at $25NL, if you raise to $2-3 pfp and make large flop and turn bets, you are pretty much commited to lose your stack and can't slow down when you're beat.
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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 3:50 pm

Some days you are the bug and some days you are the windshield. :D
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Sep 28, 2005 4:56 pm

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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 5:31 pm

Well, lets see.

I figured that there was a better than even chance that I AA were still good and I wanted to get as much as I could (greedy) - I also figured that if I checked and he went all in I was pot committed and was going to call.

So, I decided to put him all in and hope that my hand was good.

We see now that was faulty thinking on my part (since he would most likely only call if he could beat me).

I guess the wise move was to check the river and see what happened. It also looks like the Turn play was wrong on my part being OOP. Either check or all-in the Turn.

I do not think that I could fold my AA at this point.

Hey, Stone I never claimed to be a good player - just trying. I need more experience and I need to be able to pull on my experience in a timely fashion - a few seconds. These plays repeat themselves but not exactly.

You may have noticed that this not an easy game, at least not for me. :shock:
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Postby Stoneburg » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:27 pm

I'm not putting you down, I just tried to make you think about the logic of that move. If he has a hand that you can beat he may not always call, but he will call if he beats you and better yet he may very well bluff off his chips if he was on a draw that missed, or think his TP is good and "valuebet" it. Usually it is better to check/call than make, what I think, a 'scared' all-in. I would guess that "I might as well bet since I will call" is Fixed Limit thinking.
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Postby AlamedaMike » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:59 pm

Thanks for the advice - well I have played more fixed limit than no-limit by a factor of 6.

Straight out of TOP :)

Check the river if the player will bet hands that he would not call with and bet the river with hands that the player will call with but he would not bet.

I will keep that in mind.
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