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Postby Tiburon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:33 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
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Postby piersmajestyk » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:35 pm

I guess if there is any other topic besides poker I am versed in very well it is the education system or lack thereof in the US. Having spent nearly 30 of my 38 years in some sort of school as a student or teacher I can tell you first hand that the US education system is failing our children. The allowance and rewarding of mediocrity and worse is just something that I have never been able to abide. That said anyone that really wants to get an education, and I guess it has always been this way, holds that responsibilty within themselves. You can go as far as you want to go on your own desire. We have the problem in the US that we don't want to hurt anyones feelings so if little Johnny doesn't put out much effort we give him a C and pass him along anyway. We have subcombed to an acceptance of mediocrity being ok and that is just plain bullshit. The most rewarding job that I have ever had was as a high school and college teacher. I took that responsibilty very seriously and expected that my students did as well. I challenged them daily to step to the plate and achieve up to their fullest potential and I accepted nothing less than that. A few of them took that challenge and I think obtained something very rewarding for their efforts but many of them, burdened with past history of being able to do nothing or very little and get by, took that same attitude with me but unfortunately for them I didn't allow bullshit to pass. So after one university and three different high school experiences with the same beaurocratic bullshit coming down on my head saying that I shouldn't be so hard on my students or challenge them so much I decided to give up the one job that I truly loved because I was not being allowed to do it the way it should be done. That same attitude of acceptance of mediocrity or worse in all aspects of US life is at the root of many of the problems faced there. The answer to fixing most problems withing the US lies in truly educating people so that they can solve the necessary problems and be smart enough to choose leaders that can do the right thing for the right reasons (need I say more about the education system that educated a populace that allowed Dubya to be elected not once but twice). And don't let me get started on religion and the bullshit associated with that.
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Postby Tiburon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:40 pm

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
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Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:12 pm

I wish that wasn't so damn funny.

How could 54,000,000 people be wrong? That's a damn good question, one in which I am nearly at a loss.

Most of those who voted for Bush wouldn't be allowed in the doors they support. Some call it "drinking the Kool Aid." If you believed there really were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and they were aimed at us, then you sure better support the President. 58% of the people think that Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden were in league on 9/11. Yeah, that's right. 58% If you didn't support attacking Iraq, then you were anti-American, unpatriotic, and just stupid. You were one of those Liberals that want to give away the country.

Twenty years ago, William P. Simon, former Secretary of the Treasury under Gerald Ford, a Republican, published a book entitled A Time for Truth. He stated that if you gave just the INCREASE in funding for the War on Poverty to every poor man, woman and child, the total would be $32,000/year. That was 25 years ago. You get the drift? We have more poor than ever. Obviously, we lost that war.

And the War on Drugs and the War on Terror isn't going so well, either. Why can't we declare war on something we can win?

K3nt, I'm walking an extremely narrow line here and don't want anyone to think I'm a racist. When I said that the U.S. was a homogenous society, I meant it was a white European society. Our country now has almost as large a "minority" population as it does caucasian. It won't be too long before there will be as many Hispanic as white. The African-American segment has held steady at around 12%. However, between Asian and Hispanics, the trend has gone way up.

What this has led to is a much more heterogenous society, each with an agenda that is often at odds with the country's agenda, on the whole. Those two segments are much more focused on their families and their community. They don't feel they are a part of the U.S. They aren't enfranchised. It's like a boat being crewed by people pulling their oars in different directions. While each direction may be good for the individual, the ship founders. Immigrants from Europe in the 1800s all wanted to share in the "American Dream." It was a tremendous period of growth, but still a small population in a very large place. Now, it's crowded with dwindling resources and serious problems which occur in a mature society.

A society evolves in a haphazard but natural process. Much of it is the system which fosters growth, but most of it is chance. We cannot return to the US of the 50s, which many would like to do, as this is seen as the very pinnacle of US power. We could no more do that than we can stop the liberalizing of rules about what is acceptable on TV. How many of George Carlin's 7 Words are now being used regularly? M*A*S*H was the first R-rated movie I ever saw. Now, it wouldn't even be PG-13. The genie cannot be put back in the bottle, or Pandora's Box is wide open, if you prefer.

We're not going back. And mostly our leadership talks about going back, because that's what people want. I know where we've been, and where we are, and have a fair idea where we're heading. I don't like it, but no one has a choice about it. I'm just glad I'm on the downside, instead of having to deal with a future that's so uncertain.

Reality is what happens behind us while we're busy watching another parade.

CJ
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Postby Tiburon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 4:55 pm

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
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Postby Cactus Jack » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:30 pm

Nice rant.

As for how old I am, I had a copy of Carlin's 7 words, the radio-sanitized version. (Yes, I was a DJ and played 45s.) If you put it on the turntable with the needle right, then ran it backwards, there they were! Hysterical.

What I meant was, the culture has gotten more permissable, although some--including yours truly--would call it more course. All in the Family was very edgy for its time. Laugh-in was really out there. Now, those seem quaint. Archie's bathroom flushes were funny as hell. Now, there's a commercial for the Family Guy where he's sitting in the tub and farts. A long way from once to now. But there is no way of going back. It's a long, long slide to oblivion.

Now, when IS the comet coming?

CJ
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby Sunbob » Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:15 pm

Well C J, I too am old enough to remember those days. I actually had the pleasure of seeing Carlin perform that routine live - when it was fresh and very controversial material.

I remember getting sent home from high school because my hair was too long. Now I drive by the high school on my way to work and wonder how the boys can even pay attention in class the way the girls are dressed.

I guess I'm becoming my father. I remember when I thought he was ancient (and he was younger then, than I am now) :lol:

I sincerely hope that our country is able to turn things around. Someone bemoaned the loss of initiative and caring in our work force and it reminded me of a sign in the warehouse at my store. It reads:
How to Succeed at Work
1. Come to work
2. Arrive on time
3. Do your job.

The sad part about this is that, in this day, if a young person does all three of those things they will be way ahead of the majority of their co-workers.

Enough - back to work.
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Postby Cactus Jack » Sat Aug 27, 2005 5:13 am

How's this quote from Zig Ziglar? "Most people stop looking for work the moment they have a job."

Years ago, there was a book called The Rape of the A*P*E (American Puritan Ethic). It was written by Alan Sherman, most famous for a little song entitled "Hello, Mudda, Hello, Fadda." "Here I am at Camp Granada." Very funny song, and great book.

While the book isn't on topic, the American Puritan Ethic is, very much so. Most of our sucess as a society can be traced back to this ethos. Hard work and struggle will get you to heaven. Sacrifice immediate gratification for long-term gain. Good stuff, really, even if some of the APE got a little out of hand with the witch-burning and all. (Witch hunting is still a national pasttime.)

Maybe this is what I meant in earlier posts about homogenous vs heterogenous. In the past, most of the U.S. subscribed to the APE, even if they weren't Protestants in religion. Now, all of that seems to have gone out the window. It's a credit card society, both monetarily and psychologically. Buy now, pay later. Saving is for suckers. Do your own thing. Eat everything that passes in front of your mouth. Live fast, die young and leave a beautiful corpse. Then, suddenly, you're facing the result and say, "Damn, if I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself."

I'm afraid there is no cure. The patient has a bleak prognosis. The medicine is simply too strong to take. <sigh>

CJ

ps--Sunbob, I met Carlin once, 20 years ago. He's just as odd in person as he is on stage. He doesn't like people very much. He says he hates three things: the State, religion and the species. (Does he leave anything out?)
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby Tiburon » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:46 am

"...Every time you cold call, god kills a puppy."
--JJSCOTT2

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Postby Cactus Jack » Sat Aug 27, 2005 3:18 pm

Glad you enjoyed my lunatic ravings. I'm outta gas, I guess. I know there are guys out there who vehemently disagree with my assessments, and I wish they had felt comfortable with posting. I must be the BTP version of William F. Buckley, without the cool vocabulary. Any Ann Coulter's out there? :D
"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sun Aug 28, 2005 6:07 am

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby Cactus Jack » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:50 pm

"Are the players better as the stakes go up? It's not an exam; it's a buyin." Barry Tanenbaum
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Postby iceman5 » Sun Aug 28, 2005 1:57 pm

Monk, isnt the gas so high in Europe because it is heavily taxed to pay for socialized medicine? Im pretty sure thats the case in Germany at least.

If you think gas is high now, you really wouldnt like what would happen if we let people like Hussein take over the middle east. Why do you think he wanted Kuwait?

Kuwait is one of the richest countries in the world because of its oil. If someone in the middle east ever takes contol of the enitre region AND has nukes....the rest of the earth is in a world of hurt.
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Postby Felonius_Monk » Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:11 pm

The Monkman J[c]

"Informer, you no say daddy me snow me Ill go blame,
A licky boom boom down.
Detective mon said daddy me snow me stab someone down the lane,
A licky boom boom down." - Snow, 1993
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Postby WildBillHickok » Sun Aug 28, 2005 8:41 pm

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