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nut flush with paired board..

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nut flush with paired board..

Postby stoiter » Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:41 pm

this hand was 50NL

i have full stack..
villian has me covered

villian has low vpip and seems solid after 30 hands..

i limp on button with A[c] 4[c].

5 see the flop of 5[c] 5[s] q[c] pot $2.5
SB bets $2, villain calls, i call,

turn is 7[c] pot $8.50
checked to me i bet $3 , SB folds, villian min raises to $6.. i call.

river 9[s] pot $20
villian bets $6, hero???

does it look like he has 77 for a fullhouse? or a lower flush? or maybe QQ?

PT showed him as being tight so would he limp with Kxs? or maybe a SC..

do you consider a fullhouse in a hand like this? or push all those chips in quick smart
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Postby Stoneburg » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:23 pm

Fold on the flop.

You're chasing a flush on a paired board, without getting the odds.
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Postby stoiter » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:35 am

fair enough stoneburg..

when you say getting the odds do you mean even without the paired board? or do you mean there are pot odds which are good enough to chase on a paired board.

sorry if what im asking isnt clear
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Postby T-Rod » Sat Aug 27, 2005 7:30 am

Stoiter,

I don't think you get implied odds to chase the nut flush on a paired board. Okay, you hit your flush, can you get a big chunk of his stack? Probably not because if he has a low flush he (should) fear a full house OR he has the full house and you lose. Yuck.

Flop play is fine if you are trying to steal, etc.

On the river, I DEFINITELY call because the pot is laying you more than 4:1 odds. That's a pretty cheap call considering you ONLY lose to a full house (or quads I guess) but the most likely full house fell on the turn or river (QQ prob not since no pfr).
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Postby laynegt » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:02 pm

i don't have a problem w/ the flop call. 55Q is not a boat-tastic flop in an unraised pot. you're very close to getting express odds to hit your flush in position, why not take one off.

villian's turn min-raise is bad news, but i don't see how you can't call. don't even think about raising the river on a paired board. i think villian has a flush.
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Postby Tokenizer » Sat Aug 27, 2005 12:37 pm

Does he limp with QQ here? I don't think he does.

He *could* be playing 77 but I wouldn't expect a smooth call on the flop from 77 either. It seems strange to not raise there if he thought he was best and worse to call if he thinks he's behind.

I'm not sure what he's got but given the price and my hand I'm going to call and see. I'd expect to win the hand over a smaller flush more often than 1 in 4.5 times and the information you gain by seeing his cards make it an easy call IMO.

Should you be in there drawing to a flush... IMO no. I agree with Stone though, there's little value in drawing here because you don't stand to get paid off enough when you hit because you have to be aware of the possible FH. Since we are in this situation now it's a call for sure to see his cards. 1/3 of the pot is a very small value bet if he thinks you hit a flush, IMO thats more of a blocking bet with a JcTc or the like.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
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Postby stoiter » Sun Aug 28, 2005 12:29 am

i flat called the river and he showed 10[c] 9[c]

thanks for the great responses guys
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