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Call him down?

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Call him down?

Postby iceman5 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:45 am

What do you guys think about this hand?

Lag raises to $40 in EP. I am the only caller in the BB with [Ac][Qc]. I only have 60 hands with him, but his VIP is 60% and his preflop raise is 15-20%. Hes involved in alot of hands past the flop but hasnt gone crazy and is winning.

Pot is $85. Flop comes [Qd][9c][2d]. I check. He bets $50 and I call.
Pot $185. Turn [7h]. He bets $80 and I call. Ive pretty much decided to just call him down and let him bet my hand for me. The only thing Im afraid of is a K, or maybe a diamond. He has to think Im chasing diamonds since Im just calling. I think he either has me beat with AA / KK or more likely he has KQ / QJ or something like that.

Most people would say that I have to put in a raise somewhere "to define my hand". I dont subscribe to that theory. I think calling him down has some merit because he will bet alot of hands that I beat since Im not getting aggressive and he probably thinks I chasing the flush. What do you think?

Pot $345. River [2s]. I check / call $110.

1) What does he have?
2) Who wins?
3) What do you think of my passive play here?
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Postby k3nt » Thu Aug 25, 2005 8:50 am

His bets got weaker on every street, so he's not liking his hand much. I say JJ or TT. Which means you got everything you could have out of him.
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Postby Twelver » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:00 am

I don't think [Ad] [Kd] is out of the possiblity either. Especially if he thought you were on a diamond draw/straight draw as well with something like [Jd] [Td].
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Postby k3nt » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:02 am

I think Mark Caro says something in SS2 about destroying maniacs: just call and call and call and let them bet their second best hands. I'm sure his advice was more complicated and intelligent than that, of course, but I don't remember the rest.
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Postby iceman5 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:08 am

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Postby laynegt » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:13 am

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Postby Xaston » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:16 am

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Postby iceman5 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 9:18 am

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Postby BigPhish » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:03 am

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Postby droqqa » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:04 am

I like this play, I would have played it the same against a LAG - you are maximizing your profit and minimizing your risk. Raising him is only good if you are willing to play for your stack here. If you want to put a raise in anywhere, I would say check-raise the turn. But personally, I check-call it down also. I think you win this one - his bets are too weak for a LAG to have a big hand here. At best, he has KK, or AQ also.

Personally, I dont think he has a pair other than the 2's. I wouldn't be suprised if he showed Jack high. His bet on the river looks like a minimal bluff bet that will make a missed flush draw fold - a possible hand for you.

D
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Postby iceman5 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 10:34 am

Exactly what I was thinking Droqqa.

Phish, theres no way in hell I was folding. I think Im ahead 75% of the time. Im only questioning not playing more aggressively.
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Postby k3nt » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:09 am

It seems to me that if you check-raise any street, only something that beats you will call your raise. By just calling, you get weaker hands than yours to bet again. By raising, you do not get weaker hands to call. Even KQ (about the strongest hand out there that you beat) is going to shut down, at best, if you check/raise.

So your only other options are (a) bet out the turn, which is a stop-and-go play which I know you don't like; or (b) bet out the river, which might look like a busted flush draw trying to take it down. If you bet half pot on the river, and he calls, you make an extra $60 (170 - 110), assuming he calls.
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Postby poker2006 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:24 am

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Postby Cardman » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:29 am

"Sometimes its all about making the wrong move at the right time"
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Postby iceman5 » Thu Aug 25, 2005 11:44 am

He had [Kh][3h]...No pair no draw.. :shock:
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