This hand was posted on another forum... I just love fimbulwinter's advice (the guy that has commented bad about this forum and iceman in particular.). Lets see what everyone here has to say about the hand.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (6 max, 5 handed) converter

UTG ($1138.75)
Hero ($943)
Button ($788.50)
SB ($339.37)
BB ($1823.25)

Preflop: Hero is MP with , . SB posts a blind of $5.
1 fold, Hero raises to $35, 2 folds, BB calls $25.
BB is unremarkable.

Flop: ($75) , , (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $73, BB calls $73.

Turn: ($221) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $150, BB calls $150.

River: ($521) (2 players)
BB bets $350, Hero calls $350.

Final Pot: $1221

Ok...Fimbulwinter's advice on this hand was to check the turn and call a river bet unless it was a club.

This is the guy that tells Ice and the rest of us that we have don't know how to play poker?? How do you not bet this turn??? There's a flush and a straight draw out...He leads with nothing, then hits...and now he's supposed to check on a 5 handed table?!?!?

I guess maybe he's trying to induce a bluff on the river but by doing so...lets every draw stay in for free?


Someone please back me up on this.

That hand is marginal. I can see it going both ways. Check this out though. This isnt a hand he advised on. He actually PLAYED this one. Lets call it hand #2)

Here is his read on villian......."Villain is flat out terrible. I can't describe how bad this guy is. Erattic, call any raise with any two, call to the river with a pair. stuck about 13 buyins thus far, the table waitlist is 3 times as long as i've ever seen it."

Fimbul open raises to $35 with [Kc]. Villain calls on button.
Villain has $1000, Fimbuls covers him

Pot $80...Flop [7s][6s]. Fimbul bets $80 and villian calls.
Pot $240..Turn ...check/check
Pot $240. River . ...Fimbul bets $100 and villian check raises to $200. First of all, villain cant chack raise since hes on the button, but I'll ignore that, maybe its a typo.

That $100 river bet is one of the worst bets Ive ever seen. If Fimbul really was in position and he bet this river, then its even worse.

I probably should just ignore this fool, but since he wants to keep calling me out, I thought I should give you guys some perspective on how bad his advice is.

He writes some hellaciously good poker articles on EV and things like that though. Too bad he cant play as good as he writes. Hes a typical academic. Very smart but cant put his knowledge into practice in the heat of battle.

Yeah,

Two flush draws and two straight draws and you check this turn? Not me. IMO on 6 handed tables aggression pays off. He needs to pay for his draw.

Check the turn on hand #1 would be awful.

Hand #2 would be a good time to check fold or maybe check call if he doesnt bet too big. That would be your move, Ice?


AlexMR.

I don't think checking behind on the turn is that bad. It's opponent dependant but the reason you would want to check it is because most players take the line of check-call check-raise with a big hand. Most good players will not call a pot-sized bet oop on the flop with just a draw unless it's a very big one. If you bet and you get checkraised you have to fold. Granted you don't want people to draw out cheaply on you which would be a reason to bet but you don't want a set or even a bluff checkraise you which would be the argument for checking behind.

I agree that hand 2 is absolutely terrible.

Hand 1 is hard to know without a read on the SB, but being in postion after he cold calls on the turn. I fire again on the turn.

Hand 2- This is such an awfull play for so many reasons I dont even know where to start. Um call me crazy but I have a thought that maybe a pair isnt going to win this pot. Unless it is a pair of 10's with the 10 of spades.

I actually like the advice in the first hand. You've given him bad odds to chase a flush or straith at the flop and it will be EV+ if you call a moderate sized bet if he gets it on the river. If he had TPTK he probably would let it go if you bet the turn. The problem is there are only 2 reasons for a good player to call a pot sized bet - he has you beat - set/KK/AA or he intends to bluff you later in the hand if he senses weakness (and a straith flush draw, but thats rare). It really doesn't matter if you have the TPTK when the only hand that will call you is a set.
And also - by checking the turn it really looks like you are on the nut flush draw and are taking a free card. This may cause your opponent to check/call his set.

Btw in this particular hand the villain is clearly representing 78s.

Hand 2 is really bad - it looks like he fears getting bluffed and so tried to make a blocking bet. But seeing how the villain called the flop bet he'll still probably call with a set, cause the bet is too small and will call/raise with a flush. So there is absolutely no point in raising that much.. If he wanted to bluff him out he should have bet more and even better - at the turn. By the way his opponent played it kinda weird - if he had a set/2pair/straith he should have check raised him a good ammount on the flop. If he had a non-nut flush he should have probably raised too, cause he's risking giving a free card to As or Ks.
My guess is he probably had AA with the ace of spades or AKs/AQs. I guess something like 55 or TT with 1 spade is also possible..

chris,
why do you think the BB has such a monster? You're just assuming this guy is a great players. Lots of players call pot size bets cold with draws. You also have to remember that this table is 5 handed...it makes the AQ that much stronger.

I think a fold on the river is reasonable..but I think checking the turn is a crime in this situation.

Well I guess it depends on the player - if I have respect for him then I'd probably proceed like that. But if he's not a really good player, maybe even a calling station - then yeah, raise pot and make him pay.

And yeah, this advice is better suited for a full ring then shorthanded. If you've been playing agressive up to this hand (like you should on SH) you should continue in the same way. There's a good chance of ppl calling you with AT or even KT hoping they're good.