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Another did I play it right?

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Another did I play it right?

Postby AlamedaMike » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:39 pm

I feel that you guys might be getting tired of simple qustions, but I am trying to get the basics down pat and play a solid game.

Comments on my play? Too careful?

First, raising wth [Jc], [Ac] even suited after a limper is not really a good idea. If I had called with flop and he bets out I will have no idea where I am at. Then do I call, raise or fold?

So, I raised pre-flop and he just called.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (8 handed)

Hero ($86.10)
MP1 ($46.10)
MP2 ($285.10)
CO ($95)
Button ($145.10)
SB ($59.20)
BB ($222.35)
UTG ($234.60)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with [Jc], [Ac].
UTG calls $2, Hero raises to $8, 6 folds, UTG calls $6.

Flop: ($19) [Jh], [2s], [2c] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $10, UTG calls $10.

He checked the flop and I bet about 1/2 to see where I was at and he called.

Turn: ($39) [Qc] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

The trun was a bat card. Even though it gave me a flush draw, I did not feel like betting just top pair.

River: ($39) [Qs] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Now the river was even worse. If he had a [Qh] and had planed to CR the Turn, I was not going to bet it.

Final Pot: $39
Main Pot: $39, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by Hero ($39).

Results in white below:
UTG has Ts Th (two pair, queens and tens).
Hero has Jc Ac (two pair, queens and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $39.
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Postby T-Rod » Thu Aug 04, 2005 1:59 pm

Don't feel tentative about posting simple questions. It's how I learn. My questions are probably just as silly as anyone's.

Okay hand analysis.

On the flop, you say you bet 1/2 pot to see where you are. IMHO that's wrong. You don't learn anything from the 1/2 pot bet. If you are behind, he calls expecting you to lead out again on the turn. If he's behind, it's probably cheap for him to call (point is the 10,10 called anyway). You have to BTP to learn information.

Turn--You say the [Qc] is a bad card. I disagree. It's an overcard sure, but in theory it should be an overcard for your opponent too if he called your flop bet. And you gained the nut flush draw. I might be betting here.

River--Another Q and he checks. I say that's pretty weak. If he had a Q, he bets it because he doesn't want you just checking behind him for a showdown without buiding a pot. Also, the 2nd Q lessens the likelihood he's holding a Q. Your J got stronger in a headsup scenario, IMHO.


Idea--Maybe try playing a few hands with this simple rule. You either bet the pot (or more) or fold. It keeps you from trapping yourself later or not getting information, etc.
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Postby Twelver » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:16 pm

On the flop bet at least 3/4 the pot. Half pot bets look very weak and a good player will pounce on it. (On a side note. When you get very good, you can purposely bet 1/2 the pot into a good player to look weak, only to come back over the top of him when he raises you).

On the turn, I probably would have thrown out about a 3/4 pot bet, but I don't think checking is all that bad either.

On the River...Bet! No way he checks to you with a Q, fearing that you will check behind. Outside chance he has a 2 playing something like A2 suited, and if that is the case, make sure you note that he is the type of player to play that hand out of position to a raise.

-twelver
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Postby laynegt » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:18 pm

you played this hand awfully tentatively!

your ep raise w/ AJ is dangerous...however, no one called except the utg limper, so you're probably ok.

that flop is great. you should be doing jumping jacks. there are no draws and you really can't expect utg to limp and call a raise w/ a 2. go ahead and make a bigger bet here, but honestly 1/2 pot is not so bad, b/c you're likely way ahead, and there aren't many scary turn cards.

turn: [Qc] is one of those potentially scary cards, but really it's not a bad one either. would opponent have called the flop w/ something like KQ? probably not. a check behind is not bad because (as many btp'ers will advocate) you keep the pot small and now you can afford to give a free card and maybe your opponent will bluff on the end.

river: [Qs] is a good card! now you know your opponent doesn't have a Q, especially that he didn't lead the river. make a value bet here.
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Postby briachek » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:27 pm

Flop - bet at least 2/3 to 3/4 of the pot. 1/2 seems weak.

Turn, I would probably bet it again as this card doesn't necessarily help your opponent but it gives you outs.

River - depending on my feeling on the play, this is a good or bad card. If he's a passive player, it could be bad as he could have the queen and not bet it but its often a good card. I might value bet, I might check it down.

all i know is against a good opponent, you likely would have been pushed out of this pot or won it on the flop. If I was your opponent, I either would have folded on the flop or taken the pot away from you on the flop or turn.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby AlamedaMike » Thu Aug 04, 2005 2:46 pm

Great reviews and great advice. That is why I am still learning. I will try the 3/4 - 1/1 pot bets or fold for awhile to see how it goes.

This is a great hand to discuss the basics of NL. TPTK is not that strong but it is the most likely hand you will get in this spot when playing AJ.

A Jack with an Ace kicker is much better than an Ace with a Jack kicker.

Now, with AA, KK or QQ he would most likely have re-raised me preflop or bet out on the flop. Also, a check - call (in this case) could be a trap play with KK.

But, a check on the Turn should be a singnal for me to bet it. The river was weak of me.

Thanks again.
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Postby AlamedaMike » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:50 pm

Some days you are the bug and some days you are the windshield. :D
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Postby CocaCola » Thu Aug 04, 2005 3:51 pm

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Postby AlamedaMike » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:13 pm

CocaCola,

Any chance that he might have had something like [Ah] [Qh] ? You are saying that he most likely would not call 1/2 pot bet with a hand like that. Also, most players would have raised with that hand. Same for [Kh] [Qh] - most likely fold to my flop bet.

That is a good read by you. Also, something like [Qd] [Jd] for an UTG limper is unlikely as well since he would most likely fold that hand to my preflop raise.

That leaves a pocket pair. [Qh] [Qd] or better unlikely since he would bet the flop or check raised the flop.

Thanks - I need to work on my hand reading skills.
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Postby rdale » Thu Aug 04, 2005 4:35 pm

I don't mind the preflop raise, especially if you haven't been raising it up much and the table is tightish, or raising it up giving these kinds of results. At a table where $8 is going to be cold called by at least one person between you and the button, both blinds and UTG, then raising it up a miserable play, it seemed to work good here.

I think you can consider this the type of hand where if you are in the drivers seat you are generally good. I like 3/4 pot bet on the flop, check the turn, call a reasonable bet or make a value bet if checked too.

If UTG is known to passively play AA/KK, although this might be your learning experience I don't mind checking down two streets. If you think he is capable of check raising nothing on that river, I check it down too as the check raise makes me sick to my stomach. Just trying to say there are instances where you want to take your approach.
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Postby Magz » Fri Aug 05, 2005 5:54 am

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