S***!!!! That crazy playing makes me think of Party´s NL$25. It also makes me think about the quality of the games as you move up. I understand that most players who are interested in reading books, forums, etc, get better and better, and they follow the BR management rules as to when to go up and all that. But, How much are we? How many players play online and how many actually read books , forums and want to get better? I think the vast majority of players are just gamblers who doesnt have a clue. Many of them even think the online sites are rigged .

I have a couple friends who had never played poker before on their lives and they decided to start playing after I invited them to play at home. One deposited 3000USD and start playing on NL$1000 and the other deposited 2500USD to play at the same tables . One have 800left and they other have to redeposit. There are rich people who are not wiling to start at NL$25 and build a Bankroll. Even when they dont have an Idea they are gamblers and need to bet a couple 1000s at least to have their heart pumping. I hope I am right ont hat now that I want to jump to NL$100 .

AlexMR

Iceman,

Since 10/20 on Stars has opened up, this guy has made over 300K (it's been about 6 months I believe). He made over 100K in the month of June alone on Ultimate Bet playing under the name "Hassan Slask" where he has killed the 25-50 and 50-100 games. The 10-20 regulars generally consider him to be one of the three best players in that game. And from personal experience of having played against him, I think he is at least as good as his reputation preceeds him.

How do you know how much hes made? Ive heard the same thing youre saying, but Ive also heard from seravl different people who have personally sat and watched him drop bundles. One guy watched him lose a boat laod to Matusow (Dill Pickle).

Im not saying hes not winning, but who really knows how much? Im also not saying hes not damned good. Im just saying he mustve taken some lessons or something because last year he was only slightly above avg and wasnt playing this way at all (so LAGGY I mean).

MG,

I have been watching curzdog play and he is very very good. I see that this games are extremely aggressive but I also see people calling all in against two players with TPTK.

There is also another guy named twin-caracas who is playing quite well.

One question: How many hands, and what win rate does he need to have to have won over 300K in just a couple month?

it s 150 buy ins. That doesnt sound impossible for a full time player 3-4 tabling for 3 month. According to my numbers is he is playing 8 hours/day 200hands per hour at 5PTBB/100 hands he could have done it in about three month.

Is 5PTBB/100 unsustainable at NL$2000?


AlexMR.

I believe that 5PTBBs IS sustainable for the top players, but I dont think you can get much higher than that for even the top top players.

Twin-Caracas has been around a long time. Hes a very good player, but makes some VERY fishy calls at times. I used to play him quite a bit in the $400NL Stars game.

Actually I kind of understand his call. I mean what kind of hand raises preflop and bets that river? Only JJ and a bluffing AK/AQ right? There's no way QQ-AA would bet that river so he's figuring it's either a boat, which is unlikely since JJ would probably like to get more value or it's an AK/AQ bluffing.

Not saying I would MAKE that call, but I think I understand how he was thinking.

Obviously he didn't consider that the Mad Genius knows that he knows that he knows that... eh... you know what I mean.

iceman,

If good TAGs destroyed good LAGs then I don't see how almost every top NL player online is a LAG. It might have to do with the fact that the LAGs make more money off morons than TAGs do, but that doesn't really explain much since I assume if you are playing high stakes and you aren't a good LAG you are most likely a (good) TAG, with some exceptions. The best LAGGY players in the Stars 10/20 game for example, and there are probably 4-5 of them, all make a killing of TAGs because most everytime they win medium sized pots without showdown because the TAGs choose to pick other spots to play a big pot with marginal hands, which means the LAGs are essentially freerolling in the big pots. I know I am just re-quoting what DB said in SS but it really is true if you think about it. Now if I got KK everytime in this spot then I would easily make a killing off him, but what about all those times where I have 99 or 33 or AQ instead and just check-fold on the flop?

I think it makes logical sense that LAG would be the optimal playing style. TAG just happens to be MUCH easier to learn how to play effectively. DB and PI should attest to the effectiveness of the LAG style. The three winningest cash players in the workd are DB, Chip Reese and Barry Greenstein, right? At least DB and CR are LAGs, don't know how BG plays.

A *good* LAG will extract maximum EV out of many more situations than a good TAG. Granted, variance will be greater due to much smaller marginals, but over the long run I expect the result will be better.