I have about 2000 in front of me, both opponents have me covered.

I get in MP. An EP player min-raises. He has been doing this with a number of hands, and he doesnt seem to be that good of a player - very easy to read post-flop. I call. Folds to the SB, who calls. 3 way action.

Flop Pot = 140. Checks to me, I bet 100, SB calls, EP folds. I was just looking to take down the pot with top pair here, pretty standard. Unsure what to put SB on just yet, but a draw is very likely with that board.

Turn Pot = 340. SB checks, I bet 250, SB calls. Ooh! I improved. With top 2, I have to fire again here with position, especially because of the board texture.

River = 840. SB checks, again. If you look under brick in the dictionary, you will find a picture of that river. No way that helped him. I have been trying to work on my river aggression, so I decide that I may well get paid off with a hand like , so I bet 500. SB now check-raises me all-in, 1100 more. After his raise, pot stands at 2440.

WTF?

1) Who bets this river?
2) Who pays off this all-in?
3) What hands could SB possibly have?

Did I make any mistakes in this hand? And please, dont say I should fold KJs to a weak min raise. I don't want to hear it.

Before I came to the opponent's all in, I was sure he has J10. Apparently he has a set of either 3's or 10's and stupidly slow played it on a draw heavy board. Either that or he puts you on a hand like A10h.

Looks like Q9 to me. I didn't see it at first. But TJ and KT or also strong possibilties.

Still...folding KJ here?? I would have played it the same way you did. I think I'm gonna make a crying call. I probably shouldn't since I'm unsure what he has...but....Letting go of Top two is tough.

Kenny - do people at $2000NL really call pot sized bets with OE str8 draws, even when there is a 2 flush on board? I mean the guy has 6 real good clean outs. Thats crazy, makes me want to move up quick...lol.

I have a yellow post it note to remind me (b/c I've lost a fortune on this)..."When your hit your second pair post flop, it will almost alway be on a coordinated board which = CAUTION"

If you play premium hands and hit two pair, it's almost always going to be a straight draw for someone else. i play two pair made with premium starting hands like TPTK only.

I fold it.

Hands like this are why I often (and maybe too often) check behind on the river even with top 2.

I wouldve checked behind here mainly because I think he was drawing and if he missed he isnt calling and if he hit, hes going to check raise all in. But he could also check raise all in with hands that you beat.

I think I would fold because I think he has AQ or Q9...either hands could be suited in hearts ot not.

I really think you need to check behind here. I would rather miss out on a bet if he has KQ, than either be forced to fold the best hand or call when I shouldnt in a scenario like this. I think you play up to river is perfect.

I would have checked the river, but like many of you I feel like I probably am too passive on the river and am trying to value bet the river more often.

For him to call your flop and turn bets he is either

1) an idiot
2) has a big draw
or
3) has a big hand that he is slowplaying

Personally if he has a super draw with a flush draw and an open ended or gutshot straight draw I would have expected a raise at some point. He could also have a pair and a flush or straight draw, but if that is so his river raise is strange.

I just can't think of many times that I have called a big raise with two pair and been good.. I would probably unhappily fold.

I hate the hand, but I don't see how I could call. The only hands you beat are an AK, KQ, JT. I would put him on a straight, because chk-raising all in with a set on that board would be just too surprising. Tough situation you got into. Without knowing he would do that with a weaker hand I fold.

This is the reason why I need at least a set to ever bet the river.

I'm GUESSING that you're ahead, so I suppose I make the call. It does just look way too much to me like bluffing a busted draw.

But I check the river every time with that hand. Set, AQ and Q9 are definitely out there.

I do like calling the minimum raise here, though, and am becoming a lot more comfortable with that play noticing the junk that some people raise with.

I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on that one, droq. To me, it's dependent mostly on how the weak raiser then behaves. If he's going to play very aggressively regardless, I might raise my own criteria a little (KQ, AJ). But the course of this hand suggests that he has no intention of making a continuation bet and folds easily.

I think that actually UPGRADES hands like KJ, which do hit the flop often but with which I don't want to get in excessively deep on normal TP type boards. The problem with waiting for sets against that type of raiser (well, if it's a min-raise, it's not really that big a deal) is that you can't expect to get paid off. As Grant Pittman once pointed out on UPF, when you call a raise with 22, you WANT your opponent to have AA or KK, because those are the guys who'll pay you off. This type of raiser won't.

Oh, one other thought regarding "working on river aggression." Maybe I'll get to that point eventually, but most of the people I've seen who like making these river bets with TP-type hands (and I include 2 pair in that group) I just interpret largely as limit players, where I figure the move does have a lot of merit because you have to suck every bit of EV out of your winning hands there. But in limit, you also can't suddenly get into playing for stack when you don't want to.

My current attitude is more: On the river you no longer have to worry about protecting your hand. So, the real function of betting it is simply to get monsters paid off by those who have already put so much money in that they have trouble getting away from their losers. With a monster, I tend to bet a little harder than just "selling the hand" would dictate (half the pot is often a pretty big bet on the river) because I feel like keeping them worried about having folded the best hand also has a psychological function. But it's generally a bet that someone CAN call if curiosity gets the best of them--and of course, I may also bet and get overboated or overflushed or something like that but still feel like I have too much hand to lay down to the re-raise. Good example that I've been discussing with one player lately: Quads vs. overfull. I'm just paying quads off pretty much every time if I have the overfull. Sorry to ramble so much, though...

A. I would probably be suspicious and check the river assuming he would only call if he really thought he was ahead and may try to bluff me and force me to a decision with a marginal hand.

B. Three to one on your money to make a crying call. I probably make the call. Maybe thats why I am still at the $100 tables but I have seen this play before with missed draws and mediocre hands. The guy out of position assumes you are on a continuation bet and tries to bluff you off your hand at the river.

C. I am having trouble putting him on any hand with confidence. I hate the position he put you in.

How did it end up?

I can see several hands you are ahead of, and one likely you are behind to. He is going to have to show me the nuts, because I don't think he has a set. Nothing adds up to his bet, which dictates a call, and praying he doesn't have AQc AQh, but KQ K6 or something whacky.

All that said I check the river with the presence of the Ten, it weakens your two pair. I have been working on value betting more too and usually when an opponent is calling me down, I keep pounding. There are some instances that you just can not value bet and must use position and check. I use the would a check raise all in make me sick rule.