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Smooth calling with KK preflop O.O.P.

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Smooth calling with KK preflop O.O.P.

Postby briachek » Thu Jun 30, 2005 6:33 pm

It seems that the majority of people are all about getting as much money in preflop with KK preflop as you can. I was one of the ones that agreed with this but this hand made me think. However, it would seem prudent to not raise someone preflop, especially if they are solid and aggressive and you are out of position.

For example

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (9 handed)

UTG+1 ($19.65)
MP1 ($51.75)
MP2 ($47.75)
MP3 ($34.75)
CO ($48.15)
Button ($49.05)
SB ($73.5)
Hero ($92.05)
UTG ($50.1)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Ks], [Kd].
4 folds, MP3 raises to $2, 3 folds, Hero calls $1.50.

Flop: ($4.25) [5d], [Ah], [Qd] (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $4, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $8.25

Results in white below:
No showdown. MP3 wins $8.25.


If I had raised preflop, most people will not fold unless they were stealing in the first place or playing position with AT or AJ. Him being a solid player, I have him narrowed down to a strong Ace or a strong pair. There is a possibilty that he has KQ or less, but I haven't seen him get out of line.

So, once he calls my preflop raise to $7, I would have to bet about $12-14 on the flop hoping to take it down. If he calls or raise, I'm screwed. However, if the flop comes all rags or just one broadway card, I can likely check raise his continuation bet and if he has a lower pair or caught top pair that is lower than my KK, I can get him all in. If a flop like this comes up, I can fold losing only $1.50 more preflop rather than over $20 otherwise.

Thoughts on this?

What if you were in position? Do you raise mainly to isolate? In my example, it was already heads up.
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Postby iceman5 » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:06 pm

It can go both ways. If I was the preflop raiser here, I could easily have JJ and you just folded the winner where as if you had reraised me and bet the flop, I have to fold.
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Postby briachek » Thu Jun 30, 2005 8:32 pm

that is true, but he would likely raise with 99-AA, AK, AQ, AJ and AT (maybe). Lets assume he fold AT and AJ preflop to a raise from me, I win small pot. He calls with all others.

On the flop, I only beat 99-JJ and tie KK. If I bet and he folds, i win medium pot or lose the $20 I put in.

Playing it like I did, if the flop was to my liking, I can win a little more from him when I check raise him and get away cheap if I don't like the flop. It just seems an less variant way to play it and if he has QQ or lower and doesn't set up, I can possibly get him all in because he wouldn't put me on KK. If its AA, i'm screwed anyway.
Brian [Js][9s]
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