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KJ - Turn and river decisions

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KJ - Turn and river decisions

Postby briachek » Sun Jun 19, 2005 11:34 pm

After the turn raise, I wasn't sure if I was ahead and then the river check confused me. Should I have been pushing the turn? Value bet the river?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.5 BB (10 handed)

UTG ($28.25)
UTG+1 ($80.01)
UTG+2 ($60.8)
MP1 ($18.75)
MP2 ($43.05)
MP3 ($38.55)
CO ($47.65)
Hero ($50.7)
SB ($48.25)
BB ($141.54)

Preflop: Hero is Button with [Js], [Kd].
7 folds, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.25) [8h], [Qs], [Jd] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.5, BB calls $1.50.

Turn: ($4.25) [Ks] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $4, BB raises to $8, Hero calls $4.

River: ($20.25) [2s] (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: $20.25

Results in white below:
BB has Qc 6c (one pair, queens).
Hero has Js Kd (two pair, kings and jacks).
Outcome: Hero wins $20.25.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby digital scar » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:47 am

I'm certainly not a NL cash game expert but....

On the turn, when he raises, should you not re-raise here as you said?

If he had some kind of A pre-flop would he have raised you?
What types of hands is he just going to check in the BB that are beating you on the turn?

I know Ice said it somewhere in one of his articels that any time he has a hand that has good deception to it and he gets pushed on a bet he will play back at them becauase his hand is so well hidden. I read that a while ago but I'm pretty sure that was the gist of it. If I am recalling that incorrectly my appologies Ice. I know you don't have the nuts here but I think in Ice's articel the example he used was when he had 2 pair out of the small blind.

Anyways you have 2 pair heads up, I would think that a re-raise on the turn would be the best play but again I'm no expert but when I read the hand that's the way it looked to me, and by reading the post it seems that you wanted to re-raise the turn, but I might be way off base here.

What were your intentions for just calling the turn re-raise?
What were you going to do it he bet into you on the river?
If you thought he might be on a flush draw wouldn't a re-raise be correct on the turn?

Any-Hoo I'm sure alot more people with alot more expierence will give you better answers-looking back I posted mostly questions-sorry

Anyways thats just the way I saw the hand and very well may be way off base with my analysis as I try to let these posts' go to the big boys.
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Postby greggabe » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:22 am

I haven't looked at the results yet but I really don't mind your play. When I first read the hand I thought you should raise that turn, and that is probably what I would have done in the heat of the moment. BUt now looking at it, it looks like he may be slowplaying you, especially with the minraise. Then on the river when he checks to you he is either trying to trap you with a big hand or he's ready to fold to your bet so I check as well. Now that I look at the results I see he would have likely folded to a river bet so you probably don't get much out of betting there. The only question is whether you should have reraised the turn. I think it's a close call, but like I said I don't mind the smooth call.
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Postby scarface » Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:51 am

<:{{{><
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Postby T-Rod » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:01 am

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Postby briachek » Mon Jun 20, 2005 11:31 am

He could have 9T or a set of 8's so I slowed down and wasn't sure about raising. The river I felt he was either trapping or had nothing so he wouldn't call but he had a hand he would have called a small bet with.

As for his turn play, I don't think its THAT bad. I still wouldn't do it. The only time it wouldn't work is when I have a king. Even if I had a queen like he did, unless I have the king too, I would hate that turn. If I were him, I would still bet out or check raise the flop. If he did that, I would have folded and he would have won the pot. Instead, he lost $9 on the turn and maybe more if I would have raised him.
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby kennyg » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:03 pm

"I'll take KennyGs advice before Sklanskys every time. "
-Iceman

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Postby MVPSPORTS » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:49 pm

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Postby scarface » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:58 pm

<:{{{><
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Mon Jun 20, 2005 2:05 pm

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Postby digital scar » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:27 pm

Kennyg

-quick note, Bri was on the button here so I don't think he would be out of position in this hand.
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Postby kennyg » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:36 pm

lol good point. i just got owned.

In that case a reraise isn't so bad afterall.
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Postby digital scar » Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:41 pm

NP kennyg

I just wanted to point that out because you emphasized the AND your out of pos. in your post-lol j/k

I still love reading your analysis of hands, but next time I do I'm going to pay better attention :wink:
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