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3 Poorly Played hands for comment

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3 Poorly Played hands for comment

Postby BigPhish » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:16 pm

I decided that I didn't like the aspect of Limit where it can get to be correct for chasers to call. Even when I'm the one chasing. ;)

So I tried out some NLHE (micro cash - $10 max buyin on Prima). At least there I can ensure the chasers never do have correct odds to call.

In any event, I did OK, but these three hands stick out as mistakes, even though I made money on two of them. One of 'em cost me around $6. I figure if I'm paying $6 for the lesson, what better place to learn it than here...

Anyway, that's the 2nd hand.

Hand 1 - Turned a Boat

I think I left money laying on the table with this hand. I blame my time in lmit for this, I suppose. I need to alter my way of thinking to maximizing profit on big hands rather than just raising and re-raising...

All of these on Prima $10 max buy-in ($.10 small bet) tables.

BigPhish is in MP3 with [As][4s]
Villain is in SB
Nobody else really played much of a role...

2 folds, MP2 calls, BigPhish calls, LP calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB (villain) completes, BB checks

Flop ($.50) [Td][Ah][4h]

SB bets .10, BB folds, MP2 folds, Big Phish raises to .40, LP folds, SB calls

Turn ($.1.30) [4c]

SB bets .5, Hero raises to 1.00, SB folds

My mistake here. Looking back on it, I think he had Aces. I think the right play would have been to call the turn bet then hope like crazy that the flush doesn't hit the river. If it doesn't bet out half the pot maybe to look like I'm bluffing a missed flush draw, then re-raise him bigger.

Hand 2 - Gimme Yer Blinds!

Hero is CO with [Ad][Jc]
Villain is SB

3 folds, MP3 calls .10, fold, Hero bets .40, Button folds, SB calls .40, BB folds, MP3 (ABC) calls .40

Flop ($1.30) [5d][Kh][Qs]

I should have stopped right here. But I'm retarded. And I'm a fish. My question in all this is going to be... when would you have stopped?

SB bets .40, MP3 raises to .80 Here i should have stopped, Hero raises to 1.20, SB calls, MP3 calls

Turn ($4.90) [7s]


SB bets .2, MP3 calls, Hero calls

River ($5.50) [Ah]

SB bets $1.40, MP3 folds, Yep, should have stopped... Hero raises to $3.91 (all-in), SB calls

Result: SB has [As][Kd] for 2 pair, and Hero rebuys.

Hand 3 - I want my 6 dollars!

Let emotion take over. I won, but that doesn't make this the right play...

Hero is MP2 with [Ac][As]
Villain (from the previous hand) is LP

1 fold, Hero raises to .40, fold, Villain raises to .70, folds to Hero who raises to 1.60 Hey, they're Aces; what could he possibly have that beats 'em? Villain calls

Flop ($3.35) [Qh][8h][6h]

Hero( Rats. I hope he doesn't have 2 hearts. I hope he remembers that hand an hour and a half ago where he took a bunch of my money and is playing a low pair.) pushes all-in for $8.87. Villain pauses. A loooooong time. Then calls $7.65. And turns over [Ah][Ks]. Figures.

Turn ($18.65) [7s]

River [5s]

Whew! Villain leaves table busted.

I was only 55% to win that hand at that point. If he'd have had 2 hearts, I'd have been cooked. Honestly, my read on him after playing over 2 hours at the same table was that he's hugely tight, but that he's got me pegged as a source of revenue (rightly, I might add). I figured him on ace-paint or a lower PP, JJ-99 maybe.


So... will any of you experts take pity on my spending $6 and humiliating myself in front of the forum and offer critiques?

Thanks...
-BigPhish
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Postby AlexMR » Sun Jun 19, 2005 4:57 pm

I wont comment about the hands. I will leave that to the experts, but I do have to tell you that when chasing, it s better for the player/gambler to look at it in terms of EV.

When you make a bad call (incorrect odds) that move, even when you hit, cost you money. That is a move that made you a little poorer doesnt matter if you hit or not.

"The house loses and laughs" (dont know if I am translating it correctly but you get the point) means that the house never loses, even when it has to pay to a player, and that is because in every single game of the casino the player is getting -EV, so when the house pays to certain player it s only the numbers "finding their way".

This is a healthier way to look at this especially in NL where you will face sometimes very expensive bad beats. If you put the money being a big favorite evenb when you lose, you are making money because in the long run, when that hand has repeated enough the amount won will be equal or very near the move´s EV.

I started looking at it that way almost since the beginning, but now I have proven myself that badbeats doesnt change my style of playing, at least not considerably, because I went through a huge losing streak (3.1K hands) and I can tell you that my game didnt suffer much. Only because i understand that sometimes things that are unlikely to happen will happen but, as I told you, it s only numbers "finding their way".


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Postby MVPSPORTS » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:29 pm

Hand 1: If he wasn't calling the minraise on the turn, he wasn't calling anything... He bet about 1/3 pot when the board paired, you minraised, he folded... He was playing scared... Maybe he had a small ace, or some other card he wasn't planning to go very far with...

Hand 2: I don't particularly like playing AJo, but if I did, I would DEFINITELY limp it and not raise it... Then, to a flop bet and a raise, there's NO way I keep chasing to 4 outs... BTW... If you're gonna try to raise to chase people out (which is I'm assuming was the reason for your flop reraise), you DEFINITELY have to raise more than the minimum... All that's gonna do is give everyone else better odds to chase...

Hand 3: I would've reraised closer to $2.10 PF... But, on the flop, I like your push... the pot is about $3.50, and you've only got about $8.50 (I'm too lazy to look up specifics)... By his PF play, he's gotta have Aces,Kings,Queens (hopefully not) or AK.. You made a ballsy play and he made a bad call... He had to know you had him beat, and he was only 33% to make his flush...
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Postby rdale » Sun Jun 19, 2005 5:40 pm

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Postby briachek » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:18 am

I'm not an expert but here's my thoughts.

Hand 1: Muck that hand preflop except if you are in lp and there are many limpers. You are in mp and only one limper. Just muck it preflop. The flop raise is good except I probably would have made it .50 but that's just being picky. On the turn, if he won't call the min raise, he has nothing. I make a real raise anyway as I hate min raising. Make him pay a little more, like $1.50.

Hand 2: I actually don't mind the raise preflop as you get the button and maybe make the pot heads up. On the flop, I definitely fold. There is a bet and min raise before you. The worst thing you could do is min-reraise as it won't chase out anyone. Raising at all is a bad decision because one if not both of them have hands they like and you have a gutshot and an overcard that may not be good. Just muck and be done with it.

Hand 3: I raise to $2 preflop after his min reraise. I don't mind the flop all in because the only hand he would play like that you have to be really worried is QQ. Other than that, he has KK, AQ, AK or AA (Unlikely). Therefore, he still drawing but I charge him. I don't give people at that level (especially min raisers) much credit.
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Postby BigPhish » Mon Jun 20, 2005 8:08 am

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Postby Stoneburg » Mon Jun 20, 2005 12:47 pm

Hand 1.
In MP with only one limper infront of you you're probably better off mucking it preflop.

On the flop you need to raise it a little more, .60 would be perfect. A lot of the players at the low stakes just want to see the turn card before they fold and some just don't want to put a bet in and then fold to a raise but will practucally always call a raise when they bet.

On the turn you should either raise like a man or just call (hoping that he leads again on the river). Of course a raise is better, and once again, at the very least raise him a few times his bet, but preferably pot size.

Hand 2.
You might as well limp behind with AJo, it's not really worth a raise and you don't want to scare off the Ax hands.

On the flop I have no idea what you are doing. You are mini-raising with a gutshot and what may or may not be a live overcard... what the hell are you thinking? That SB bets out doesn't mean much but when MP raises you have to realise that A high is NOT the best hand and your draw sucks. And why the mini-raise again?! If you have the immortal nuts and just want to get more money into the pot without scaring people off, that could be a move to consider. This was just horrible, horrible, horrible play.

Hand 3.
You could probably have re-raised a bit more, or even better, pushed all-in preflop but the way you played it is fine. Heads Up it's very unlikely that he flopped a flush, more likely due to the preflop action is QQ-AA and AK, you're ahead most of the time, but not by that much if he has a heart, so a push is fine.



Judging by most of your raises I don't think you have left Fixed Limit at all, I think you're just playing Fixed at a No-Limit table. ;)
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Postby BigPhish » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:19 pm

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Postby T-Rod » Mon Jun 20, 2005 1:33 pm

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