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Logical puzzle

Postby Zmej » Tue Jun 19, 2007 6:27 am

I took it from 2+2, and it looks interesting.

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Ok, so this isn't THE prisoner dilemma, but it is a problem in which prisoners face a dilemma. I got this from my friend, who was asked this problem in some job interview.

You and 30 other prisoners (the # doesn't matter) are being held in a common jail cell. You know that shortly you will all be taken to solitary confinement, at which point you will no longer be able to communicate, but you are free to discuss strategy now.

You also know that after you are separated, the guards will sporadically take individuals to a room with two switches, labeled "switch A" and "switch B," and that each switch is either in the "up" or "down" position, and that right now they are both down. When you are taken to this room, you have to switch exactly one of the switches, and then you go back to solitary.

You don't know the order that the guards will take you; you might visit the room 10 times in a row while everyone else sits in their cell, or you might sit in your cell while the guards cycle through everyone else 1000 times, etc. (I.e., assume the guards act randomly in choosing who visits the room next.)

Your task as a group is to at some point have someone declare factually that every prisoner has visited the room. For the sake of argument, say that if someone guesses that everyone has visited, and that person is wrong, then you all are put to death, whereas if that person is correct, then you all go free.

So what is your group's strategy?
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- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby NorthView » Tue Jun 19, 2007 7:00 am

Mon May 12, 2008 1:46 am
When I play a patient and relaxed game I win - that simple.

Mon May 12, 2008 10:55 pm
Seriously, fuck poker.
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Postby Triple B » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:22 am

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Re: Logical puzzle

Postby Pok 7's » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:25 am

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Postby geiststaat » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:26 am

"A big day in my career was the day I realized that tomorrow I would still be a tilter." -- Tommy Angelo
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Postby Triple B » Tue Jun 19, 2007 8:52 am

I think what you do is you assign a value to one of the switch positions.

Using statistics, you figure out what the probability is that all have visited the room if one has visited the room X times.

For example, if you have 30 people, maybe the odds that are once 1 person has been in the room 20 times it is 99.9% that all have been in once. (disclaimer, I have not done the math, I am just throwing out an example)

So, once 1 person has been in the room 20 times, he/she puts both swtiches in the up position. The next prison declares that thay have all been in the room.

All live 99.9% of the time.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:04 am

Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby Zmej » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:27 am

I assure you that there is a definite solution to this problem.

Brag: It took me about 5 minutes to figure it out. :twisted:

Edit: It's not a statistical one like TripleB proposes. Though I would like to see the details of his suggestion :). I am not sure that such a setup would work.
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby Xaston » Tue Jun 19, 2007 9:57 am

I just got out of the shower and am not even dressed yet, but thinking about it for a minute I think it has something to do with one switch being designated as a "new person" switch, that is only flipped on peoples first visit to the room. The other switch is for people who have already been to the room once and have already flipped the "new person switch."
Boy, you got me confused with a man who repeats himself.
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Postby Zmej » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:00 am

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby RedBarracuda » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:04 am

Image
(6:35:48 PM) giantgrwth: I once beat up an attempted murderer, 25% true story
(6:35:59 PM) hard2tel45s: boxing?
(6:36:06 PM) giantgrwth: Yea
(6:36:14 PM) hard2tel45s: sweet
(6:36:30 PM) giantgrwth: He was my best friend too, lol
(6:36:48 PM) hard2tel45s: well u were in the crazy bin bro
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Postby MacAnthony » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:04 am

So one person (leader) is in charge of counting and that person tells the warden once each has visited.

You leave switch A as a counter. Each person will be instructed that the first time they enter the room to turn switch A up once when they are in the room when switch A is in the down position. Every one else will just change switch B. No one else but the leader will change the switch down (or off). Once the leader goes into the room and sees switch A up, he should switch it down and keep track of how many times he does it. He should then know factually once all the others have switched the switch.

Sound about right?
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<emmasdad> pulling an ED = getting wasted and firing off 1/2 the BR???
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<emmasdad> i have only done that 3 times in a year and a half. . .
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Postby MacAnthony » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:05 am

Mac - Getting quoted in sigs since 2006


<emmasdad> pulling an ED = getting wasted and firing off 1/2 the BR???
<Trump34> yep
<emmasdad> i have only done that 3 times in a year and a half. . .
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:28 am

I had the same idea - about leaving one switch for first time switches and the other for every other time but couldn't make a connection to a logical answer.

Mac's sounds right.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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Postby RedBarracuda » Tue Jun 19, 2007 10:30 am

Image
(6:35:48 PM) giantgrwth: I once beat up an attempted murderer, 25% true story
(6:35:59 PM) hard2tel45s: boxing?
(6:36:06 PM) giantgrwth: Yea
(6:36:14 PM) hard2tel45s: sweet
(6:36:30 PM) giantgrwth: He was my best friend too, lol
(6:36:48 PM) hard2tel45s: well u were in the crazy bin bro
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