Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2005 1:17 pm Post subject:

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Yoga... I don't want to seem like I'm talking bad about the way you play... if that's what makes you comfortable, then by all means do it... I'm just saying that, in your example 2 out of 3 times, your up $300, once your down $300... that's still a +$300 variance... When I sit down at a table, I always look to who has the most chips as the guy I eventually want to gun at... <<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Dont sweat it bud...you'd have to go a long way to insult me in an discussion forum and I know your intentions are good.

I guess this is something I will have to work out as time goes by. I have a lifetime of poker behind me but really only a short time playing NL ring games. Here's another way to think about it:

The emotional pain of losing a triple buy-in 1 out of 3 times is worse than the emotional thrill of winning 2 out 3 times. I am not afraid to push it in when I am on a double-up, but once I reach that triple up point I know it's gonna be a good day for the bankroll and want to protect it.

Now for all of you who are going to give me the "that's Neg. EV" dialogue, I understand your point. You are mathematically correct and in the long run you will make more money than me. I just dont want to put $600 into a pot unless I am at least pair over pair favorite. There are just too many low risk opportunites available in these games for me to think that it is worth it to take a 1/3 risk and lose.

YD

Yoga - If you ever would knowingly pass up on a 66/33 shot due to potential variance, you really shouldn't be playing cards. 55/45 I suppose I could understand, but it just doesn't get much better than 66/33. That's basically saying that you'd pass up on KK vs AK.

Yoga - If you ever would knowingly pass up on a 66/33 shot due to potential variance, you really shouldn't be playing cards. 55/45 I suppose I could understand, but it just doesn't get much better than 66/33. That's basically saying that you'd pass up on KK vs AK.>>

OK, palman, I will quit playing poker because you say so.

YD

I don't mean to sound harsh, but what in essence you are saying is that for a 3 buyin stack, if your opponnent went all in and accidently exposed his cards, and they were AK, you would fold KK. Now I know this isn't actually true, and you'd call in a heartbeat, but based on your arguements you are saying that you would muck it.

Even if a 3 buyin stack was 1/3 of my bankroll.... I would take the 66/33 in a heartbeat. I could take 66/33 chances for 1/3 of my bankroll and only have less than a 2% chance of going broke.

I am assuming a 3 buyin stack doesn't even come close to being a 1/3 of a bankroll, thus you are saying that you are adverse to a variance that gives you a .000001 % chance of going broke. If you are that extremely risk adverse, then I would certainrly not recommend playing poker. You can play flawlessly with your opponnents cards exposed at all times and the inherent variance in the game would involve more variance than that.

Hey, I respect your opinion palman. Yup, I am extremelly risk averse and if I was up 3 buy-ins and I had KK and knew for a fact my opponent had AK I would still fold most of the time. I simply feel that my edge as a good player over many hands is larger than the edge I have in this one hand. Of course this adds up to neg. EV but I feel that when you are playing against such weak opponents I would rather chop smaller pots or wait to get all 3 buy ins in with him drawing dead or close to dead.

My disclaimer: If I was playing against a field of expert players I would call with the KK vs. AK because I would recognize that is the greatest edge I will get against players who know what they are doing.

Also, as kindly as I can,say it please refrain from telling people to "stop playing poker". This site is so great because people respect each others opinions. If you like, check out my blog at www.livenolimit.blogspot.com - it will show you the success I have had even though I duck out in certain situations that other players would thrive on.

good flops

YD

There is no reason whatsoever to be playing THAT "risk averse" if you have the proper bankroll for the games your playing.

Thats what we call "weak tight", but suggesting that you would fold KK with your opponents AK exposed is taking weak tight to a whole new level.

Yoga, its your money so obviously you can play however you want, but you will never be a top player with this strategy. Most of the best players in the world play exactly opposite this. They will push all in with a big draw or the nuts. That kind of aggression is hard to combat.

If you would fold KK to an exposed AK, then I guarantee you that I can make you fold all kinds of hands that you shouldnt be folding.

Im sure youre a winning player but you are capping your winning potentila tremendously.
Also, the fact that you would fold the KK tells me that your skill level is NOT above your peers. At least not in that situation.

I dont think Palman is trying to offend you and Im certainly not either, but you really need to rethink this.