this was interesting ( I pay attention to anyone who is $1/3m up in the last 6 months):

11:38 am: Stop bitching about shortstacks.
A number of blogs/strategy forums have been railing on shortstack play at party. Both the annoying nature (and debatable breaches of rules/etiquette) as well as suboptimal strategy are mentioned as reasons why shortstack players are bad for the game, and just bad players. Two threads I’m referring to are probably worth reading:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showt ... ost6360510

http://o8poker.livejournal.com/40494.html

As you can see, in the 2nd link, I chimed in to berate shortstack play, and then less than a week later posted there again with a dramatically changed opinion. Since then, I’ve changed my mind even further—not only do I think shortstack is a viable strategy, I think it is probably closer to optimal than playing deepstack for the vast majority of players.

First, here are my thoughts on rules & etiquette of shortstack play. Rules are clearly not being broken. Neither ratholing nor buying in for the minimum are against the rules if the software interface allows you to do so. This is different than in B&M casinos, but remember you are on the internet so deal with the rules and learn to beat the game regardless of its structure. I admit it is poor etiquette to rathole chips, but internet poker is not the place for following stringent rules of etiquette, in my book. Therefore, IMO shortstack play and even ratholing are fine. Learn to deal with it.

Second, how about the alleged strategic suboptimality of shortstack play? For starters, here is how to correctly play a shortstack, because part of the problem with people underestimating shortstackers is that a fair number of these shortstacks are just idiots, or people playing scared money, and are playing nowhere close to optimal shortstack strategy:

1) Never limp. Raise any hands you play for the max preflop, then push the flop if you have any fit that isn’t a lock, at all (pair, draw, whatever).
2) If you flop a lock, check and let others bet for you. You have three streets to get the rest of your stack in, there is no rush.
3) Fold when you completely miss and someone else is very likely to have hit the flop. Especially when heads up (multiway you have more leeway in taking a very slim draw for obvious pot odds reasons).

Part of optimizing this strategy is starting hand selection, I’m not going to spell that out because it’s the trickiest part of the problem.

OK, assuming the shortstack player is using this strategy close to optimally, let’s list some of the key differences between shortstack play and deepstack play, and see what counts as an advantage and what counts as a disadvantage.

1) shortstacks will never have to make a turn decision
2) shortstacks will rarely be making anything other than a small mistake (equity-wise) on the flop
3) shortstacks get loose preflop and flop calls
4) shortstacks do not benefit from loose turn and river calls
5) shortstacks take a relatively small hit when dealt a cooler
6) shortstacks gain a relatively small benefit when opponent is dealt a cooler
7) shortstacks benefit from deep stacks having to play against other deep stacks (protected pots)

In my mind, 1 benefits weak players only, 5 & 6 balance out, and so you have to decide whether 2 + 3 + 7 amount to sufficient strategic advantage to outweigh 4. Personally, I think it’s a very close call. Based on datamining, I’ve seen examples where what I would consider ~optimal shortstack strategy has achieved winrates that match the winrates of the best deepstack players. Therefore, I’d say that on balance 2 + 3 + 7 amount to sufficient strategic advantage to offset (but not outweigh) 4.

However, if you are not a good postflop player (majority of players out there) then you have the added benefit of point 1—never having to play past the flop. Also, playing shortstacked may reduce your variance (I will have to check this), and definitely reduces potential tilt and psychological burden. Put all that together, and you’ve got a pretty strong case for the efficacy of shortstack strategy for the vast majority of players—those who aren’t strong at deepstack play. With all this in mind, I think there are two major deciding factors in choosing how deep to play: whether you are better than the majority of your opponents at postflop play, and your bankroll limitations.

Personally, any time I get to within $4-5k on party without ready access to more cash (maybe 3 or 4 times this year), I drop to shortstack strategy at the 2k tables, maybe even the 1k tables too depending on confidence level (always low at that point). So far, I’ve never failed to chip up relatively quickly to a level where I can play deep again. And during these shortstack periods, I get the added benefit of provoking rage in the players I frequently bust when I’m playing deepstack.

In summary, people need to rethink their opinion of shortstack play because at the moment, I see some very naïve opinions out there.

Nice try, Kuso. This forum is fcuking gay.

sigh.... this whole thread is depressing.

fwiw, i'm a big fan of all the degenerates on the site (e.g., MVP, MK, etc.), so my admiration for mute's feats of debauchery are definitely not having my nose up anyone's ass.

for anyone who has had these kinds of experiences with their friends, they know that this kind of shit is A+ life experience. it's even better when you take home some of the casino's money. i'm going to cheer on ANYONE who does this and then takes the time to write about it.

that being said, mute was pretty gay for deleting the URL.

i'll take the liberty of posting the link, since it has good poker content, too (ugh, it hurt me to type that):

http://wintermute-ca.livejournal.com/