OK, I saw the video

[iceman5]

Who the hell is Sheehan and WTF makes her sons life any more important than any other persons son?

I'll say only this about the war.....one of my other liberal relatives who happens to be the sister of the guy going to IRAQ said that she doesnt believe that the government was involved in the 9/11 disaster but that there was enough evidence to know something was going to happen and that they shouldve stopped it. I agree with her, but in the very next sentence she says that we shouldnt be in Iraq and Afghanistan. This is the same crap I hear all the time.

Sure we knew Bin Laden was a threat, but what wouldve happened if we went over there 2 years before 9/11 and "stopped" him? She wouldve been saying that we shouldnt be over there and she would be bitching and moaning about an unjust war like she is now.

She wants the terrorists stopped before they perform their acts of terror but she doesnt want us to to go over there and stop them. Amazing.

If we go to war with N.Korea right now, there will be protests in the streets here and all over the world. If we dont , then 5-10 years from now, dont be crying when all hell breaks loose and we "didnt do anything to stop them".

[Allstar7]

[80Proof]

[black_knight6]

[k3nt]

[NorthView]

FFS, why is it that so many people have trouble distinguishing one country from another?

Afghanistan - hiding place/training ground for AQ

Iraq - f[]ck all to do with AQ, everything to do with oil and US greed

N Korea- f[]ck all to do with AQ or any other terrorist organisation, but "dirty Commie bastards so let's bomb the shit out of them, yeeeeeehaaaaaaaaaaa"

Sick.

[iceman5]

Heres what I said......

She wants the terrorists stopped before they perform their acts of terror but she doesnt want us to to go over there and stop them. Amazing

I didnt say anything about Iraq being involved with 9/11 (although Im quite sure they were in some indirect way behind the scenes). To stop someone before they perform acts of terror, we have to make some sort of pre-emtive move which is what we did to Iraq. When you make a pre-emtive move against someone, it seems unprovoked to the layperson who is out of the loop and doesnt know what is going on behind the scenes.

If Im standing on the corner minding my own business and then I pull out a gun and shoot a dude across the street, all of the witnesses are going to say that I shot him for no reason. My attack was unprovoked. But what if Im a cop and the guy I shot is a guy I arrested last week and he swore he would kill me the next time he saw me and I saw him reaching into his waistband for a gun? Now the witnesses didnt know any of that. They just saw my "unprovoked" attack on him, when if fact I was defending myself from something that was about to happen. Alot of pre-emptive strikes occur like this. If you wait for the other guy to hit first, then you didnt stop him before he performed his acts of terror now did you?

Do you guys realize what is going to happen if / when madmen like Saddam or the guy in N.Korea get nuclear weapons and a means to launch them? We cant sit around and wait for that to happen because it will be too late to do anything about it.

One more thing about Iraq and oil.....the war in Iraq obviously has alot to do with oil. Not that we want to steal the oil, but the fact that it is vital to the world that stability remains in the middle east. That wont happen when people like Saddam and Bin Laden get nukes.

If you dont like that, then start protesting all of your yuppie friends who are driving SUVs that get 15 MPG. I'll bet that alot of you here and alot of your parents are driving them as we speak. How about going out and buying a hybrid car that gets 40-50 MPG or shutting the hell up? Sorry about the bluntness, but this is something I feel very strongly about. Not the war. But the hypocrisy of protesting a war about oil while wasting natural resources at a record pace.

This is the problem with alot of Americans.....they want socialized medicine but already do everything they can to cheat on their taxes. Taxes will be much higher if we get socialized medicine.

They dont want to go to war, but they want the gov't to stop terrorists.

They want want want..but they dont want to pay whatever price it takes to get what they want.

I doubt that any of you guys complaining about the govt could do any better and neither could I. Our government is far from perfect but its the best government in the world as far as Im concerned. It would be alot easier to govern a small country like Switzerland that doesnt need to shape world events. They just sit back and enjoy what we Americans have to pay for with our blood sweat and tears.

One last thing, look back into the history books and you'll see that alot of Americans were bitching and moaning about entering World War II and probably every other war we're even been in. "Why are we going to Europe to fight?" "Why dont we mind our own business?".

So far N.Korea has done absolutely nothing to us, but we can all see plain as day that they fast becoming a world threat. What should Bush do? Nothing has worked so far. Theres no way he will launch a pre-emptive strike in the current climate, but years from now it will be too late and if they launch a nuke at someone, these same people constantly complaining will be saying "Why didnt we do something 5 years ago. We knew they were becoming a threat. We had plenty of warnings. Im tired of our government not protecting us".

[shamdonk]

[k3nt]

[NorthView]

[SideSwipe]

[k3nt]

[iceman5]

NorthView,

You think Libya was tamed thru demoocracy? LOLOLOL

I was in Libya in the late 80's. I cant tell you what I was doing there but rest assured I wasnt doing anything diplomatic.


As far as your comparisons between Iraq and Russia,its not even close to the same situation. Russia was not led by madmen and there culture was not engulfed with maniacal beliefs. Their country wasnt a breeding ground for terrorists. You cant possibly believe that terrorists arent training in Iraq can you?

I think the compairsion is a lot closer to China. China has nukes but you dont see us all up in arms about it do you? They dont appear to be any threat to us or anyone else, although I believe that this is the only country that might be able to defeat us in war
********************************************************************************************

K3nt,

You make some good points and I wont argue with all of them. i dont claim to have all the answers. When I say Im "quite sure", this comes from talking to friends who were there. There is no blatant evidence that the world would accept, but boots on the ground tell the story. Lots of times I know someone committed a crime but I cant prove it so the "evidence" never gets presented to anyone and the only ones who see it are the grunts in the middle of the investgation. In my case the detectives. In Iraqs case, rangers, special forces and others who are on the ground doing the dirty work No, I cant prove anything but I know in my gut based on what a couple of these guys have told me.

Dont get me wrong, I dont doubt the Iraq situation has alot to do with oil and with Bush wanting to finish what his father shouldve finished. I dont have my head in the sand, but Hussein had to be stopped at some point anyway. He was committing atrocities on his own people and tried to take Kuwait before we stopped him. It took him a long time to rebuild but if we didnt hit him again when we did, theres no telling what he wouldve done in the next decade. Not too mention that the majority if Iraq appears to be overwelmed with relief and joy that the tyrant is gone, so think of it as a humanitarian mission if it makes you feel better, but it was something that needed to be done at some point.

Yes of course we had good intelligence on Bin Laden. CLINTON HAD IT! He did nothing with it. And yes, apparently it does take an army to defeat a few madmen when they are hiding deep in Afghanistan and / or Pakistan or wherever the hell he is because we still havent found him. Clinton couldve had him assassinated years ago before he went so deep into hiding and it wouldnt have taken an army.

"You think that liberals are namby-pamby types. I disagree 100%. We very much want to defeat the terrorists. We wish that we had an administration that actually made that a priority."

Me too, I wish Clinton wouldve killed him

"If defeating terrorism is your priority, you do not invade Iraq, a country that posed no threat, while bin Laden is in Afghanistan."

We have people in Afghanistan also, remember?

We took on the guys who had nothing to do with terrorism (Iraq), at the same time failing to commit any resources to stop the guy who planned 9/11 (bin Laden, Afghanistan), and destroying our ability to stop the next guys who may plan nuclear terrorism (Iran, North Korea).

Failiong to commit resources to Afghanistan? Are you kidding? We blew up 1/2 the country and we are still there looking for him. If we attacked N.Korea right now, people like you would still be arguing agaisnt it]


Oh, and when a few years ago Iran made some very serious diplomatic moves to try to start talks with us, we turned them down flat. When we were in a strong position and they were begging for talks, we said no. Now we're in a weak position and we are the ones who are out of options.

We are not out of options by any stretch of the imagination You severely underestimate what the military is capable of. We can kill the leader of N.Korea at the drop of a dime if we want to Im not saying that we will, but its an option and there are many others.

I'll agree with you on one point. This whole situation is fugged up.

[NorthView]

[k3nt]