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When do you push PP, when do you get away

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When do you push PP, when do you get away

Postby poker2006 » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:21 pm

How do you get away from second best PP? It's great when you're on the right side of things, but there has to be a way to minimize losses.
When do you push, how do you play it to get information?
What is your _thinking process_ on these hands?

Examples where I wish I played them better:

HAND 1
--------------
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+2 ($47.5)
MP1 ($100.9)
MP2 ($78.8)
MP3 ($40.28)
Hero ($160.35)
Button ($49.25)
SB ($22)
BB ($47.9)
UTG ($45.9)
UTG+1 ($6.9)

Preflop: Hero is CO with [Kh], [Ks]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.50, UTG+2 raises to $3, MP1 calls $3, 2 folds, Hero raises to $10, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls $6.40 (All-In), UTG+2 raises to $30, MP1 folds, Hero raises to $70, UTG+2 calls $17.50 (All-In).

Flop: ($128.15) [7d], [4h], [9s] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Turn: ($128.15) [Ts] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($128.15) [8c] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $128.15

Results in white below:
UTG+1 has 9c Qd (one pair, nines).
UTG+2 has As Ac (one pair, aces).
Hero has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins $104.90. Hero wins $23.25.


This player was pretty tight. I correctly guessed what he had, but still wasn't sure enough to lay down the hand. If you just called this preflop, do you think you can get away from it on the flop?

HAND 2
--------------
Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

Button ($50.5)
SB ($68.25)
Hero ($119.6)
UTG ($49.65)
UTG+1 ($72.65)
UTG+2 ($50.35)
MP1 ($58.69)
MP2 ($108.08)
MP3 ($49.1)
CO ($38.5)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [Qc], [Qh]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, UTG+2 raises to $2, 6 folds, Hero raises to $4.5, UTG+2 calls $3.

Flop: ($10.25) [8d], [2h], [Td] (2 players)
Hero bets $7, UTG+2 calls $7.

Turn: ($24.25) [3c] (2 players)
Hero bets $20, UTG+2 calls $38.35 (All-In), Hero calls $18.35.

River: ($100.95) [7h] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $100.95

Results in white below:
Hero has Qc Qh (one pair, queens).
UTG+2 has Kh Ks (one pair, kings).
Outcome: UTG+2 wins $100.95.


This time again I had a feeling he could have me beat. The guy was fairly loose, raising often with AK, AQ which I thought he might have.
I wasn't all in preflop on this hand, so I had more options on how to play it. There are a few ways analizing the hand, let me know what you would _think about_ when playing this hand. I'm inclined to think I should have checked the turn and try to get to a cheap showdown, but the result might have been the same...
-- andyG [Ah]
I try to learn something new every day. Winning comes by itself.
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Postby Zarathustra » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:42 pm

Hand #1 -- without a read that this guy is a tightish player, you might be in trouble at the low limits. But he is trying to tell you he has a big hand when he re-reraises you preflop -- but given his stack size you either have to put him all-in or fold here, and since its low stakes Party, the right play is usually put him all-in.

Hand #2 -- I don't re-raise preflop here. You are heads up with a preflop raiser who at this point doesn't know what you have in the BB. It's a good spot to call and see how the hand goes from here. QQ is a hard hand to play against preflop strength when you're out of position and he knows you are strong but you don't know enough about where he's at. Plus, by just calling, you make the pot a bit smaller, allowing you to check-raise the flop to test him out without getting too much of your stack in. I try to avoid playing big pots with QQ out of position.

Neither hand was terribly played at all, though. Just tough luck when very good meets even better.
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Postby WildBillHickok » Thu Apr 21, 2005 12:53 pm

hand # 1....they say that the 3rd raise means A's (usually it can mean K's or A's) ...he had the 3rd raise, and since you had K's, the probability that he has A's and not K's...
course this is easy for me to say, hard to get away from K's...i probably would have called too, since it wasn't that much more.

With pretty good players, to call a 2nd raise, for me, i'd have to have no less than
AKs, Q's, K's or A's, depending on position a bit too...course if there were lots of players going to be in, and i could still get in relatively cheaply and was in the SB or BB, i might call with a nice medium sc.
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Postby Rhound50 » Thu Apr 21, 2005 1:21 pm

The first hand is so tough to get away from, yes usually the third raise is AA or KK but I have seen so many times when the third raise is AK, AQ, JJ, 1010, that I think that third raise thing only really works when you are playing against good players. I am willing to take my chances with KK preflop in almost any hand. I have only folded KK preflop twice in almost 3 years of playing almost every day. Both times I had a very strong read on my opponants. It was nice that I was right both times.

Hand 2- I really dont like the way your opponant played his hand but I guess it worked. You have to love that flop for QQ and without a reraise preflop you cant put him on a higher PP than yours, tough hand, I think most of us dont get away from this hand.
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