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Was I too aggressive with my set?

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Was I too aggressive with my set?

Postby briachek » Tue Jun 21, 2005 3:56 pm

Short stack was new to table and since he was short, didn't think much of him. Villian was slightly loose - 24% and pretty aggressive. Should I have slowed down when he called the min raise? I put him either on the straight or flush draw and I wanted to make him pay for his draw and if he had the straight, I had outs. Was this just foolish?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (9 handed)

Hero ($68.55)
BB ($59.80)
UTG ($56.40)
UTG+1 ($29.45)
MP1 ($69.85)
MP2 ($44.95)
MP3 ($15)
CO ($48.80)
Button ($81.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [3c], [3h].
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.50, MP2 calls $0.50, MP3 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button calls $0.50, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) [2s], [As], [3d] (6 players)
Hero bets $3, BB folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 raises to $6, Button calls $6, Hero raises to $26, MP3 calls $8.50 (All-In), Button raises to $81.4, Hero calls $42.05 (All-In).

Turn: ($166.95) [4s] (3 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($166.95) [Js] (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $166.95

Results in white below:
Hero has 3c 3h (three of a kind, threes).
MP3 has Ad 2h (two pair, aces and twos).
Button has 4h 5h (straight, five high).
Outcome: Button wins $166.95.


Once I had reraised, I had to call his all in but should I have seen the turn first?
Brian [Js][9s]
Anyone who gets in a fair fight, has no tactical skills.
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Postby poker2006 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:09 pm

This happens to me once in a while, you're up against 2 players, and the player who is less aggressive initially has a monster. You should notice that button called a raise cold, and if MP3 made a reasonable raise this would have looked much more suspect.

You might have been able to limit your losses if you just called the flop, then slowed down when the 3rd flush card hit on the turn, but playing a set strong is the way to go.
Your hand is well hidden, and it's hard to respect a raise when you're sure your opponent doesn't know the strength of your hand. And when there's an A on board villain could have AK or something. I'm much more likely to think of a straight with a 458 flop.

On the other hand, I was really upset yesterday where I made a set laydown "being sure" villain had 67 for a straight on a 458 flop, when in fact he had 2 pairs 55+44 and I had him beat. Next time I'll just play it strong and if I lose tough luck.
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Postby JJSCOTT2 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:11 pm

Interesting question. In all honesty, I would have probabaly got my money in on the flop same as you, but now that I think about it, I'm wondering if that's definately the right play, but I may be being influenced by the outcome of the hand. Tough decision, but if you decide to take a turn, then what? Push on non-spades above 6 and either a 2 or 3 obviously. But what if you get a spade, or an ace or a 4 or 5? I think that may set you up to get unnecessarily pushed off a hand in which you are extremely likely to be ahead.
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Postby iceman5 » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:15 pm

I play it exactly the same way. Notice MP3s min raise with 2 pair? If I have AQ, I fold right there.

The button called a bet and min raise. that doesnt mean he has a staight. He could easily have AJ, AQ, flush draw or other hands.

Im willing to play for my stack with this action and since MP3 min raised, he thinks he has a monster and will call a lrage reraise. You dont need to slow play him at all.
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Postby scarface » Wed Jun 22, 2005 7:01 am

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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Jun 22, 2005 12:18 pm

I dunno, button actually seems to me to be a very good player, but this is just one hand.

I think the real question is: Can you ever lay down your set here to these players, assuming the turn and river aren't absolute disasters?

If you can't, I think you might as well indeed get them in on the flop.

Now, while there's no way I'm ever laying down (or failing to raise) the set here to a short-stack, the big-stack button is the real issue with regard to laying down later in the hand. If the button has a good deal of credibility (as this hand would seem to indicate), I think I'd just flat call the minimum raise on the flop.

Basically, I think this is one where I'd like to be playing the button for stack. But you may be behind, and he might be drawing to the flush. Anyhow, if you're playing a big stack for the whole thing, you are also going to have to be capable of laying down, and you're out of position. I'd still rather like to play each street with him in light of the coordinated board (unless he's a LAG, which he doesn't really seem to be). I do think you really need to remind yourself of 54s as a real possibility here, although it's sometimes hard to fully accept that possibility at the table when you have quite a hand yourself.

If you do flat call the flop, I think you can either check-call the turn (within reason) or bet it out at somewhere around 3/4 pot, and see what he does. And, despite the fact that the flush is non-existent in reality, I'd definitely check-fold that river if button were to make any sizeable bet (which I don't think he would anyway with only one card missing to the flush).
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Postby T-Rod » Thu Jun 23, 2005 10:31 am

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