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Small to medium suited connectors....

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Small to medium suited connectors....

Postby BadBeatMan » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:12 pm

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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:18 pm

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Postby sonicboom » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:04 pm

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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:13 pm

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Postby iceman5 » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:36 pm

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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:45 pm

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Postby rdale » Wed Apr 06, 2005 1:37 am

Agree on taking the flop.

If I raise with it, and generally limp with it, I will see a flop with it for a reasonable price. If I make it $5 he makes it $10 and we both got over full $100 I'm going to take a flop. I might even take the flop for a $5 to me shot at his $50 but wouldn't want worse implied odds than that.

There is more than one way to steal with these, limping in late at a loose preflop and tight post flop table and betting when checked too is profitable as well. Sure you can do this with any two cards at this type of table, but having the advantage of picking up a draw or something is nice too, especially if you get played back at over a small unraised pot.

The key to successful play with these for me isn't in whether I raise them preflop or not, but my post flop actions. If I have serious advatage over my opponents in post flop skill these go way up in value. I will not have to connect as often to earn the pot, if I have estabished a pattern with how I play a flush draw, I may be able to bluff a flush of a different suit, win with position bets, and if worse comes to worse actually make a five card poker hand :)

Raising them or not raising them I think is dependant on position and your opponents. I don't like to raise these into tight passive players that can not lay down KQo that makes top pair. I would rather limp, fire and decide whether or not to shut it down at the turn. Against LAGs I like for them to make some sort of hand that figures to be the best at showdown. Against weak tight players, I raise or limp depending on position and make my judgement calls on how hard to hammer on later betting rounds.

Calling raises is a different manner and I may or may not cold call based on mostly position and number of cold callers between us. You will not flop a monster often enough to take it on against the size of the pot sized bet that is coming with 4 cold callers in between. Heads up or one other cold caller and the pot can be managed if you are on a draw. Opponents that can lay down big pairs or top pair top kicker there might be less value long term in calling than someone who will never believe 98s just filled the gap on a J67T4 board. The opponents general post flop aggressiveness when they raise will also make me lean towards folding or not. If i'm likely to see the turn for free if they miss with AK, or can get them to fold missed AK, I'm very likely to call. If they pound hard with missed big aces, I'm slightly less likely to call depending on every ones current chip count. If there is a super aggressive player to my left, that is likely to reraise for the fun of it, I let them go. In short I'm hoping to keep the pot small, be able to get a reasonably priced draw or an opportunity to bluff.

The deeper the stacks the more likely I am to scrape the thoughts above and gamble it up.
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Postby Rhound50 » Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:26 am

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Postby devilmollusk » Wed Apr 06, 2005 11:16 am

I went over my PT stats with suited connectors yesterday. I did far better when I raised with them. The concept is fairly simple: If I have not raised then I cannot reasonably make a steal attempt from an EP or MP. I find this is true accross the board in NL, not just with suited cards. It is almost like I need some sort of standing to make a bluff. The pre-flop raise gives me the right to make a flop bet.

So if I end up just calling with suited connectors and I miss or hit a gut-shot draw, I can't really push with them. The only real play open to me is a check-raise from EP, which is a very dangerous play.
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Postby BadBeatMan » Wed Apr 06, 2005 9:44 pm

Wow, this won me my biggest pot of the day...textbook on how it went down.

I raised to 4x the BB (2.00) with [6h] [7h]

and got one call

Flop: [5s] [8h] [9s]

I check, the guy over bets the pot into my check hoping I had a stong ace and I missed the flop.
I call.

Turn: [Kh]

He bets the pot, I call

River: [Qs]

He bets, I raise him to all in he calls.

I win with the nut straight and he never saw it coming....
He had KQ
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