I've been doing some musing on my most recent days' poker playing. Been thinking about it a lot, in fact. Mostly because my play absolutely sucked.

After maybe 15 hours of poker at Party NL$25, I'm even. Someone should hit me upside the head with a shovel or something. Even! Bleah.

So anyway, my thinking. I'm thinking I have a lot of leaks. I'm thinking that I've identified the biggest - TPGK. Sometimes TPTK. Sometimes just a good kicker. I don't think I fold it frequently enough.

Looking back at it, I tend to think of all the players on Party as complete donkeys. I'll fold TPTK to a TAG or to a passive who's betting strongly. Against extreme LAG's, I'm sticking with it as long as the bets are reasonable (pot-sized) and winning enough of those.

It's against the questionable players that I think I have the problem. The guys who sometimes don't have it beat but usually do. I tend to call them far too frequently, just as I'd call down a LAG.

What are your thoughts on TP/GK sorts of hands? What's your general thought process when deciding what to do with them?

I think I'm changing mine...

1) If I'm first in and the board isn't blatantly bad, I bet 3/4 to pot. If the board is bad, I'll tend to check/fold to a TAG or passive and check/raise to a LAG.

2) If the raiser(s) are extreme LAG, I tend to raise unless the bet is bigger than pot, then I fold. And I fold to a re-raise here.

3) If the raiser(s) are TAG, passive, or moderate LAG, I tend to fold.

Bottom line, I need to start thinking that TPTK sucks and fold it to any reasonable action. I think I'll lose a lot of pots to TPWK type holdings, but those should be small pots that I'm losing.

How frequently do you find yourself winning with TPGK type hands when there's action post-flop?

I have QJ. Flop is Qxx.

Someone bets pot or close to it.

Against an avg or unknown player I fold

Against a LAG who bets everything, I call and think about raising the turn.

Against a TAG, I fold sometimes and raise other times depending on who it is and if they fold too much. I know alot of TAGs who will fold to my raise in that situation. Since they are TAGs, I have to assume that they have a good Q. KQ maybe, but I get them to fold quite a bit and if they call the raise, they normall will fold to a sizeable turn bet.

TPG/TK reminds me of that line from the Karate Kid. Walk on right side of road okay... walk on left side of road okay... walk middle of road squish like grape.

TPG/TK is walking in the middle of the road. It's not strong enough to withstand any heat and yet you can become wed to it easily. It's also an obvious hand to opponents.

My win rate skyrocketed when I stopped looking to TPTK as where I'd make some money (along with overpairs). I'd much rather play suited connectors, little pairs, etc. where I can make semi-hidden hands that have big payoffs.

Really the only way you can win a decent sized pot with TPTK is to have AK vs. AQ on an A flop AND have the guy be willing to call you on every street. Of course, for everyone of those, you run into someone with a set or someone wth a goofy two pair so it's not really a good long-term advantage.

Look to other types of hands for your $.

With the exception of tight passive players. A good cash game rule of thumb with TPGK TPTK is have you been raised did they lead and you raised? You can often play either situation on every street if you keep the bets reasonable to the actual value of your hand, which should look like pretty standard value bets. If at some point someone raises that is semi-credible, it is time to think about folding unless it is very reasonable call. Reasonable calls mostly happen on the river and you wind up with 5:1 or better to look up a min raise or some such sillyness.

Lets say it is your raised pot with AK or KQ on the button, and someone leads into you from mid and you raise and they call. Especially true with the KQ, still holds true with the AK that you might wish to check the turn against a reasonable average opponent if there isn't a draw on the board that you are reading him as holding. You have position and a mighty good hand, but pot control need to be exercised with the single pair type hands. You may even induce a river bluff where they wouldn't call a turn bet.

If the draw misses on the river and you bet the turn, a value bet is not always in order, unless you know they will play KJ top pair hands all the way the down. Still the presence of other over cards might warrant a check. You should be mixing up checking and betting naturally based on your opponents tendencies and in position it is harder to steal the pot from you. Checking it down controls the size of the pot when you have a likely but uncertain winner, after all they may have been calling you down with something else. If you miss out on too much value betting you will find yourself breaking even in unraised pots, but raised pots this isn't as true.

Basically, position helps this situation, as out of position you are more likely to bet every street. Even OOP you have some hope though, as you can bet 1/2 to 2/3 pot on the turn instead of a full pot bet. 1/2 pot is right at the cusp of bad odds for the flush draw that is 4:1 to hit on the river as you are giving 3:1, and maintains the pot. A very strong hand that beats one pair will often raise it up enough to protect from the draw that he may read you for with this bet.

The tight passive rockish players, you want these guys on your right, so that you can check the turn more often with TPGK TPTK as if they call the flop you are in trouble a fair amount of the time. Having this guy on your left makes the hand much harder to play especially if you think he is some what of a theif if you show weakness. The tight passive player is going to make your one pair hands harder to play especially OOP and you should be more willing to let it go if he ever raises or leads.

Remember don't lose a big pot with out a good reason with a one pair hand, exercise pot control and recognize the actual value of your hand vs. the assumed hand of your opponent.

When first came to BTP I was building my roll basically with bonuses. I was a slightly losing player, but I always seemed to lose less than the clearing rate of the bonus I was playing, so my BR was growing.

I learned in BTP that TPTK is not a hand to invest a lot of money in. I also learn the concept of pot control. That was what I needed to start winning, just a bit, but winning. After that I have read a few books and have kept reading about lots of thingsHERE and now I am (in fact WAS because I havent been able to sustain CRAP at the $50 tables) a winning player with consistency. I left the $25 tables with a winning rate of above 16ptbb/100 in more than 15K hands.

Pot control is the Key playing TPTK. It could, in fact must, make you money. But you have to understand that is not a hand to play for you stack or most of it. With position raise, so you can check the turn if you dont put someone in a draw, and then call a reasonable bet on the iver or bet if its checked to you. If you are raised BIG,, it s probably time to let go. That could be a little weak tight, but as I said, I dont think thats the kind of hand that is going to be making you a lot of money.

You know, the thing that frustrates me the most about Poker isn't the bad beats. It's that I just can't get this simple stuff through my thick skull.

Twice last night, I lost a stack on TPTK and over-pair hands. I'll share one.

NL$25, been at the table for 80-ish hands. My stack is close to $40. New player sits down to my right. I'm on the button, he posts his bring-in quarter.

A few limpers around to new guy who mini-raises. I look down at AK offsuit. I tend to mix raising and calling on that hand, with more calls than raises. In any event, I call. One of the blinds and a limper or two call.

Flop is A35 with a couple bucks in the pot. checks around to me, I bet the pot. Folds around to new guy who raises to $8. I'm not giving his mini-raise pre-flop much credit. Most people raise bigger with aces. I don't even consider that he might have done that with 3's or 5's. I can't even fathom that he'd raise preflop with 24. I push. He calls.

Neither the turn nor river improve me and he doubles up off me with 35 offsuit. That he raised pre-flop. Wow.

Good poker players should be folding the best hand some reasonable percentage of the time. Or what they think might be the best hand anyway. I should have folded to his $8 bet. I should almost always fold to large bets with TPTK and overpair hands.

I also should consistently raise with AK, I think. Bumping it up to 1.50-2.00 pre-flop might have taken him out and won me the pot.

Someday I'll figure that out and play like that. And my BR will actually begin to increase again.

Wow do I feel your pain. Same tables as you last night, I lost two pots simultaneously to a) 23o and b)45o. The 23 called down my aces and hit two pair on the river. The 45 called down my TPTK and hit a river straight. In neither case could I see it coming based on the board. I mean, they called pot size bets with smallish draws for gawds sake. I still ended up for the night, but only because I doubled up on two seperate tables after I won all-in bets. But you have to take the good with the bad I guess.

I still have the same problem. I don't look at my hands as "I have TPTK, which is only mediocre." If I could say those words to myself, I would do better.

What I say to myself instead is, "I have AK on an A-high board, which I raised preflop, so I'm pretty sure I'm ahead." Then when I get raised big, I have to make the mental 180 degree turn and say "Oops I guess I'm behind." Sometimes I fail to make that turn, and call the big bet, and keep calling, and lose a bundle to the set of 2s or whatever.

Repeat after me, Kent:

TPTK is mediocre
TPTK is mediocre
TPTK is mediocre
TPTK is mediocre
TPTK is mediocre

Maybe I'll get it one of these days.