I think this goes back to the dicussion do you need to play tighter in limit or no limit. I have heard some arguments from both sides. I believe Jen Harmon in SS2 wrote or at least implied that you must play tighter in limit.

When am playing those hands in the sb I am not looking as if i were getting in for 1/2 price. If I have 4 limpers before it gets to me assuming the bb calls the pot is giving me 10-1 odds. How many hands are unplayable pre flop when you are getting 10-1 odds? I only need my rags to come through 1 in 10 times for this to break even if I just play my cards straight up.

One in 10 times to do what? You call in the SB with T6. The flop is T64 and you get heavy action and Im your opponent.

If I give you heavy action with that flop knowing full well that youre in the blind and can have anything...I dont have AT. I have 44 and you get stacked.

Now how many more times do you have to hit to make up for this?

I had a recent situation that deals with this scenario. In this case I happened to be the BB and didn't have an option. I checked with my 4-2o and the board comes down K-4-2 rainbow. I do like to lead out with this hand a lot since you can easily be counterfeited but in this case I checked and a guy made a minimum bet. It was called in about two to three places so I raised it to $30.

I was called by the originall better and the turn came a 10. The pot contained about $80 at this point and I led out for about $70 or so. I was pretty confident I was still ahead. My opponent thinks and thinks and thinks and I'm trying to figure out if he has KQ, KJ, or AK. I don't think he actually has K10. He eventually calls and the river comes a deuce.

The pot has about $220 now and I figure he'll call about $150 since he called my turn bet. I lead out for $150 with my boat and I'm promptly raised the rest of his money, which catches me by surpise but it isn't much. No way I'm folding. I call and the money slides his way.

WTF? He has 44 for the flopped set and ended up with 4's full. Now this is terrible luck but is a great example on how you could potentially lose a ton of money if you played this hand from the SB.

I tend to never play any of the junky hands that have been mentioned earlier (J5, 94, K3s). I will play most connecting cards, suited one or two gappers, and maybe A3 because I can flop two pair and get action vs. a big ace or hit a wheel.

play it post flop the same way you would play the same hands in the bb. I would play them kinda weak tight postflop. I am not looking for heavy action on a weak made hand even if I am on the button, unless I gave a good read on a player. I must stress again that I need at least 4 limpers to play rags 1,2 or 3 limpers and im out without a decent hand.

okay let me ask the question another way what kind of odds do you need to make 10 6 off +EV? How many limpers.
Thats why I started this thread trying to find out if i need more odds that I am getting to play these rag hands.

edit. I wrote this before reading the previous post. i still would play this hand as if in the bb.

I would never play it even if it was suited and if the whole table limped.

I'm very loose from the SB and I'm in the black, but I play $20 not $200-1000 like Ice, and I call with a lot of hands BUT... they must have potential.

T6o has no potential. 97o does because it can make a straight. T6s has no potential either since it will at best make a very weak flush, but K3s does. Basically I will limp with:
Any ace
Any suited K
Any connectors, 1 gappers and 2 gappers

At least those hands have a possibility of making the nuts or a strong hand. When you're calling with T6 you can't really imagine any flop other than quads/full house that you want to hit, and that's not going to happen often enough for it to be worth even half a blind.

Thanks everyone for the candid responses

I like calling with any two from the SB with the intention of betting any flop when only the BB and CO or Button limp. Not the cut off and the button.

This is the ideal steal situation with iniative. It is one of the reasons I'm profitable from the blinds is stealing these small pots pretty consistently.

If you call with weak hands you obviously aren't going to make a strong hand very often, you must be able to pick up more than your fair share of these on the flop, a large field is not the time to play junk out of position even with the increased pot odds.

Hmmm, interesting thread. I was looking at my stats, yesterday, and was surprised to find I'm a big winner from the SB and a big, fat loser from the BB. My VP$iP is twice the BB from the SB. My winning $ is half the BB from the SB. Is that weird?

Looking at the hands I've played, AA and KK account for this winning from the SB. I've won enough from these two alone that it's accounted for all the losing crap I might have played. However, I find that I'm not really playing a lot of crap, either. Ax has been pretty good to me. QQ, no, but JJ, yes.

Do people just discount holdings from the SB, which accounts for the nice wins?

CJ

ps--I'm also a loser from the button, which actually surprises me.

I'm pretty tight from the sb. I hate to be playing in the worst position. Basically if I can play it in late position, I can complete the sb with it. I'd at least want J9s to do it in a normal game. But if there are a really lot of limpers then I'd be inclined to limp with something like 56o or K2s. Still, not a big fan of it.

A long time ago I learned that calling a full bet with 960 on the button is better than the calling a half bet in the SB with the same hand and two limpers...

If you don't think you can bet nothing and get away with it in the SB, then don't call a half bet with nothing and more than two other people already in the pot.