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Playing draws heads up.

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Playing draws heads up.

Postby Hofstra » Mon Aug 22, 2005 3:37 pm

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Postby rdale » Mon Aug 22, 2005 10:42 pm

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Postby Aisthesis » Mon Aug 22, 2005 11:22 pm

I agree pretty much with rd here. I like to get a decent read before making big moves.

With high M's, I'm not willing to go very far with an A-high hand. I'd rather have a deuce pair holding 32 (although I'd rather not go THAT far with the latter hand either).

As to the draws, I do like betting them out, sometimes raising a bet if I'm bet into (depending on opponent). A check-raise is also fine if your opponent is over-aggressive and likely to have nothing. But I'm also very capable of just flat out folding a draw on the flop. Someone overbets the pot into me, and I may very well just fold it, particularly if I'm in a bit of trouble but have enough stack to wait for a solid hand.

In general, I think moving in is not a very good move. If someone does that frequently, I'll definitely try to set them up, deciding what exactly I need to call them (if they're doing if often, middle pair is generally enough). When the M's get low, it's a different story, then moving in PF or on the flop can be very attractive. I just don't see risking a disproproportionate number of chips for a smallish pot.
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Postby rdale » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:04 pm

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Postby MecosKing » Fri Aug 26, 2005 1:19 pm

I dunno- i think that saying there is less fold equity heads up is totally wrong, and check raising allin with the bare nutflush draw i think is a standard move for a pretty darn good reason.

Think about it- you are playing heads up with someone, and say they raise 3x the BB preflop, which they would do with anything from A3o to Q8s to AA. Realistically, its pretty damn hard to tell what they have when they make a standard raise, and anyone that claims to know is just talkin outta thier ass.

So the flop comes down [Jc] [7c] [5h] and you have [Ac] [6c]. Your opponent will make a continuation bet, and i think that a big checkraise or a push is almost always in order, because headsup there is actually ALOT of fold equity, since there is a pretty decent chance that either your opponent completely whiffed the flop and is just trying to take it down on a continuation bet, or that oyur opponent has a hand (lets say A7o) but he's not willing to play it for all his chips. The only hands your going to get called with in this spot are a J or an overpair, or a set of course, if your unlucky enough to run into that. Otherwise, your nutflushdraw is going to take it down over AK, 66, maybe even 99.

And, if it doesnt and you get called by a KJ, then you have three additional outs in the form of your ace, and have a pretty good chance of stealing the pot.

Even with the BARE draw (Assuming you dont have overcard outs, which you often do) you only need 15% fold equity to make that play since the flush will get there 35% of the time. I think with decent size stacks, you almost always have 15% fold equity, and thats why that play has become so prevalent.

The only problem is when someone makes that move, its so commonplace now that opponents may actually put you on your hand, and call you with a crappy pair, or even an AKo- i have a friend i play HU with pretty often, and he's a good player, a better NL player than I most likely, and i have called him with some pretty cheesy holdings in these situations and been right, because the allin checkraise, monstrously overbetting the pot, has almost come to mean that someones on a big draw. If someone had a set, theyd play it a little slower probly, and TPTK usually wont even play that fast- so mixing it up is key i think.

Anyways, i think the play is fine personally.
NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
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Postby Tokenizer » Sat Aug 27, 2005 11:32 am

You make a damn fine point mecos. The caveat, like you said, is that you have to make the same play in other situations for it to work and not be a tell over time.
"The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing."
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Postby MecosKing » Sat Aug 27, 2005 4:36 pm

Thanks token. Props on the tagline! Socrates must have been a poker player. Or a pedophile, one of the two. Maybe both.
NorthViewBTP: poor old ED
NorthViewBTP: from gun totin beer swiller
NorthViewBTP: to limp wristed defender of fagdom
NorthViewBTP: ALL THINGS TO ALL MEN
NorthViewBTP: IS THE SAME AS NO THINGS TO ANY MAN
--------------------
Mekos King: NV ignoring
Jimmy BTP: he's ignoring me too
Jimmy BTP: obv fell asleep in his colostomy bag
Jimmy BTP: running shite everywhere
---------
neelguru: I gave up politics when I was 6
neelguru: Im dedicating the rest of my life to getting unstuck
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