Well, I did have a few opportunities to try my loose raises from LP tonight, and I'm quite sure they showed a profit. I think I did it about 4 times, had a guy bet into me once (laid down unimproved) and took down the pot the other 3. Probably netted about $125 or so over 3 hours, so not bad.

At the moment, the move is no doubt profitting from my rather rock-like table image, so that's definitely part of it--although people are seeing some rather unexpected moves these days, too...

Anyhow, here's another idea more for long-term, picking up a bit on Harringon's randomization ideas: I wonder if it would be close to optimal if you kept something like a 50-50 mix between legit raising hands and "other" from LP. More like 75-25 in MP.

Also, a certain number of times actually limping on what I'd call the true raising hands (AK, JJ-AA) maybe something like 25% of the time.

At the moment, I'm probably not far off from the general percentages in all probability, but the positional component does make my raising strategy at least in principle readable. I do think it would take a VERY long time for anyone to really figure it out, though.

Basically, it does have its advantages if, in any given situation, there's really no hand that your opponents can effectively exclude from the mix. I will say that I'm much more inclined to make "table factors" more the decisive component than just pure randomization, as Harrington appears to envision.

On a slightly different note: One thing I'm really liking is calling readable raisers with position on unusual holdings. Out of position, I'm extremely picky, normally just going with pairs and AK. But in position, if I have a read on the raiser (e.g., check or weak bet on a bad flop), I'm pretty sure I've turned a profit off of calls with hands like KJ, etc.

one move ive been doing alot lately is raising in LP, any two cards if on the button, if there are 2 or more limpers to steal those blinds. if someone calls they usually check and give it up to a bet.

I think you've got a very reasonable strategy here, esp on the lower limits.

"No limit is basically a power struggle." Fox

"Limit is a game of mathmatics. No limit is a people game." Various Authors

"I'd play every hand blind if I could guarantee two conditions: one, I've always got the button, and, two, my opponents don't know I'm playing my hands blind." Doyle Brunson

I do very well with this strategy, I think, playing the players rather than my cards, when in position. On an unraised pot, esp, I raise any 2 cards on the button. My range of hands goes up very little if there is one caller, depending on that caller's rep. In limit, I played hands strictly based on pot odds. In no limit, I depend much more on feel. My biggest losers are actually top ten hands, although this is understandable given I play them much more often.

I could be wrong, however, since I'm a relative rook at NL and just barely breaking even after 10k hands.

Good posts, Ais.

CJ

As long as you only use it now and then and dont showdown very often with a "non raising hand", its fine. I see alot of guys do it at higher stakes EVERY time they are on the button.

Against those guys, if I happen to have limped in, I will reraise them with literally anything that I limped with. I dont care what it is.

Yeah, I think tokenizer and ice are both completely accurate in assessing the viability of this play.

I do have a question for ice on the re-raise: First, obviously if someone is doing it on any 2, surely they won't even think about calling a re-raise with 72o.

But here are my "issues" with re-raising loose raisers a lot: First, how much do you re-raise, and, second, how do you play the flop if you have to?

Just as an example, let's say you play KJ in MP, get one of these loose raises in LP. Let's say to $25 using a fairly standard amount in this 2/5 game. Also, there's almost no one who'll do it on any 2, but there are plenty who'll make this LP raise on QT (which, by the way, does fall below my standards for the LP raise unless it's suited). What would you do here (both PF and on the flop)? I've actually been just folding it out of position even though I probably have about as good a hand as the raiser does...

Also, one correction to my original post: I made this move last night probably 4 times in SIX hours, not 3. I just want to emphasize that, at a full table, it's very important imo not to create the impression of being a "chronic" LP raiser. Actually, probably a good rule of thumb would be, if you ever get caught, just go back to "real" raises for the remainder of that session (unless the old table has effectively disappeared).

Thanks. That's kind of what I figured.

And, since I still don't see them laying down to my AA re-raise, I just don't think they're ready for it in this game. I regrettably haven't had the opportunity to re-raise AA the last few weeks, but they're still with maybe 2 exceptions not capable of laying down QQ or AK PF. And I'm not even convinced they're going to lay down a raised QT.

But I figured the re-raise MUST be followed by a strong continuation bet here. So, my conclusion is simply: You need some serious fold equity to make this move.