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more 200$ 6 max line checks

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more 200$ 6 max line checks

Postby gsdavid » Sun Mar 11, 2007 6:45 pm

#1) Table is quite loose, I'm in MP with 212$ , with [Jc] [Jd], CO (57/30/1.1) has me covered and UTG (no reads) has 70$. UTG limps, I raise it to 10$ and both CO and UTG call.
CO I somewhat donkish, he is trying to play LAG preflop but postflop he turns quite weak and passive.

Flop: Pot is 33$, [4c] [3c] [2c] i bet 24$, CO quickly miniraises to 48$ and i decide to push...
Now this is very bad..my thinking was that he could have flopped str8 or set so that i have few outs with my flush draw..(while i hoped he could be making this play with 55-TT or 43 or such that he could fold to push)
Now my question is..Is it a weak line just to check this flop? its a 3 way flop, its very draw heavy and problem is that even if I decide to CB i must to fold to any raise(Ac Kc is coinflip if they push into my raise, as well as many other hands might push their draw..)
So is c/f flop a good defensive line?

#2 I'm new to the table and I have so stats or prior reads. I'm dealt [Qh] [Qs] UTG and i raise it to 8$..whole table folds except BB who calls my raise

Flop: Pot 17$, [Ks] [Tc] [9d] BB checks and i bet 14$ and he quickly miniraises to 28$..
Hero? I've seen that Zmej likes to check flops where he has even more outs, because here we are either WA/ WB and its a good mix to check flops where he have a best hand and then bet turn/river. Anyways, i decide to call with my gut shot and perhaps steal the hand later on..

Turn: pot 73$, [5s] he bets 18$ i decide to call thinking he could had CR flop with 2nd pair

Rive: pot 109, 4d, he bets 24$ and i call...do I CB or check flop? do I fold to CR miniraise?

#3) I'm in SB with [Qc] [Ad], UTG who is regular (13.1/5.6/0.8) raises to 8$, CO( i have no reads on him) calls i call and BB also calls(no reads). Note, UTG is not that tight usually, but doesnt deviate too much from those numbers)

Flop: Pot: 32$ [Ks] [Th] [Js] basically this is my dream flop(besides rainbow flop of course :D) I decide to check, BB checks, UTG, who is original raiser bets 20$, CO folds and i CR to 60$. UTG is only caller

Turn: [Jd] Hero starts to cry and does what? Pot at this point is 152$ i have 122$ behind and he has me covered. If hero checks, villian pushes AI, hero?
tnx for replies
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Postby DonkiFornication » Sun Mar 11, 2007 9:10 pm

Hand 1- AcKc? o rly?

CO's not cold-calling AKs preflop. Maybe AQs because there's a limper yet to act. This minraise is the same thing a weak postflop-wannabe-aggressor would make with air. This flop sucks. It most likely hit nothing. Nice CB. Nice shove.

Hand 2- I like a check. Too many hands call you and CB'ing just builds a pot. In a perfect world, you get called, you guys check-check a rag turn, he fires 3/5 the pot on the river to another rag and your Queens are good.

As played, new to the table, I look him up on the flop in a later hand if I see this as a pattern. If he has the balls to price me in here with a worse hand or a hand where I have 6 outs, he can hand me his stack later. I think I'd want KQ/KJ to continue here, at the least. But after you called, he's giving you great overlays to call and I'd call those bets. That turn is sooooooooo tempting to pop up to $75, but the bet foreshadows a cheap showdown, so I like how you played it.

Hand 3- This guy only thinks 5.6% of his hands are worth raising preflop, so I'm leading this flop 100% of the time because it's sooooooooooooo likely that he hit it and he's committing his stack with a raise. I made this mistake in another thread where I flopped a low set, had no reason to believe that my opponent didn't have a big starting hand, but didn't 3-bet all in and I lost value. You got action here or you've got none at all, IMO.

As played, push the turn. Pot control went out the window when we flopped the joint and CR'd the flop. We don't want a turn check to slow down QQ/AK/KQ but I'm pretty sure we got action from them when we push. AJ's not folding and we could have the same hand. Otherwise, I don't see QJ/KT/AT as in his range. I'd even think him to limp KJ/JT preflop.
[Ts][Tc]
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Postby Zmej » Mon Mar 12, 2007 7:46 am

Hand1. I like a flop check here. I don't agree that this flop hit nothing, if our opponent had only one card [Ac] he would be ahead here, if all the money went in on the flop.
After the mincheck-raise I don't like your push at all. If you decided (your reads say so) that it's good to play for it all here, it would be much better to call flop min-raise and push over his bet on a blank turn.

Hand2. I would check behind on this flop sometimes, but I don't mind a bet either. After the CR I could raise his turn bet here, but I would need a read to do this. I've seen lots of weak players playing Kx this way. Your call down is ok.

Hand3. I would fold preflop against such a nit. I have tight raising standards in SB and BB, but even there I raise more than 5,6%. After you calll preflop I agree with Donki, lead flop and 3 bet AI. This flop hit him almost always, and he won't fold AK here.
As played push turn.
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Postby DonkiFornication » Mon Mar 12, 2007 6:58 pm

I'd agree with Zmej on Hand 1 a lot of times, but I think we lose a lot of good action to mid cards falling on the turn when we push. CO raises 30% of his hands. In position, he's gonna re-raise a wide range of Aces. We're only 51/49 dogs against the [Ac] with kickers J or lower, but we don't wanna lose hands like 55, not to mention that we look like we're unmade and lower pairs might wanna gamble. We're flipping down the middle with the [Kc] or [Qc] and we're not in bad shape against a set. A straight would lower our equity, but the $100 dead in the pot and his wide range makes a push more profitable here, IMO as an amount of money we don't mind picking up at all. On the turn, Villian's more likely to change his mind in the wrong direction for us and that small piece of his range calling off $140+ in bad shape relieves the pressure.
[Ts][Tc]
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Postby gsdavid » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:08 pm

Hand #1) I think that in long run, with average table being somewhat passive, I am better of checking that flop and making a play on turn. Ive only invested 10$, flop is not favorable, only hands that will confront me are Ac or Kc, combo draws or made hands such as sets, str8...etc. This is only due passiveness of players, so Donki its quite possible that at your stakes you will see a lot more hands that those mentioned above. I feel that this is a check or CB/fold to minirase almost always
Villian had K9c for flopped flush, I had no outs :/

Hand #2) Result oriented i like my line here. All my 6 outs were live, the villian played his T9 , a two pair, quite poorly since if i hit some of my outs he would still pay me off enough to make this play, drawing that is, profitable

Hand #3) Unfortunately I must agree that best play here is to lead almost 100% of time, with that raising range he must had hit something. Anyhow, I insta-pushed turn to give him as little time to think as possible(he has about 10 sec or less to act) but unfortunately he instacalled and showed me KK for boat. I think that one of the reasons why we want to get AI on flop is that often, a more laggy opponent will have a two pair here and will give us no action if A or Q falls
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Postby DonkiFornication » Mon Mar 12, 2007 8:24 pm

Hand 1- Maybe I am used to people being more aggressive based their opponents reacting to aggression with more aggression. My experience is that the minraise is a weak illusion of super-strength geared to scare into a fold with air, into handing over the lead with a pair to take it down on the turn, or a free river.
[Ts][Tc]
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Postby black_knight6 » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:33 pm

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Postby Triple B » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:46 pm

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Postby Mr_Burnout » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:06 am

Min raise from a postflop passive player with AF of 1.1 = MADE HAND.

That would be overpair, flush, straight, two pair, set...

No draw/bluff in my opinion.
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