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How much to raise with a boat

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How much to raise with a boat

Postby GooperMC » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:22 am

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ Hero (10 handed)

UTG+2 ($23.55)
MP1 ($24.15)
MP2 ($21.05)
MP3 ($27.55)
CO ($45.84)
Button ($69.29)
SB ($21.80)
Hero ($25.70)
UTG ($19.55)
UTG+1 ($15.16)

Preflop: Hero is BB with [5s], [5c]. SB posts a blind of $0.10.
4 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1) [5d], [Ks], [Kh] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, MP2 checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($1) [7h] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1, CO calls $1, SB calls $1.


River: ($5) [9c] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $3, MP2 calls $3, CO folds, SB raises to $6, Hero is all in

A couple of questions:
1) Should I have lead the flop trying to build a pot? My thinking was that if someone has a K at the level all the money is going to get in anyway so I can slow play a little.
2) How much to raise on the river? That river min-raise looks like a K to me. If he has a K I am not sure that he is going to re-re-raise but I think that he will call that all in. If he’s got kings full so be it.

Hand early in the session so no reads.
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Postby black_knight6 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 6:27 am

Well, first off...you need to raise on the turn! If you're not going to lead out at the flop (which is reasonable, but a case could be made for betting it), then you really have to start building on the turn. Raise the turn to 4 with that action...you'll get called by someone, and maybe reraised. You're money needs to go in asap since any KX is getting odds to draw at you and if the board pairs 7s you're counterfeited. Don't min raise the river - he's not bluffing: so go ahead and pop it to 9.
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Postby GooperMC » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:26 am

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Postby Aisthesis » Wed Sep 28, 2005 7:30 am

Not to say I haven't done it, but it is an absolutely HORRIBLE play to check that flop--moreso from BB. You MUST start getting money in there, and any card that shows up is a scare card for you.

You can pretty well assume someone has a K and will at least call. They really should raise. But the underfull needs to be played as fast as you possibly can play it.

You have one out to improve (quads). Anyone with a K has 4 outs on the turn, 7 on the river.

Anyhow, I bet out pot on the flop, hope for a raise (which I will re-raised at pot), bet pot on the turn, essentially bet pot every time I have the opportunity to bet on this kind of board. Ideally, I'd like to have at least one full stack all-in on the flop, but this is sometimes difficult with passive opponents.
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Postby k3nt » Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:12 am

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Postby T-Rod » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:28 am

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Postby devilmollusk » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:39 am

I think there is one other reason to lead the flop there... people with almost never give you credit for a hand, at least at that level. Everyone and his mother slowplays the K at $25NL. So if you lead out with a pot-sized bet people think you are trying to steal. I have seen people with A-high call in these situations because they think their Ace is a live out.
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Postby GooperMC » Wed Sep 28, 2005 10:56 am

Thanks for all the input. What you guys are saying about leading the flop makes sense.

What about the river? Lets say that you didn't lead the flop, how much do you raise on the river? Do you like pushing all in like I did?
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Postby Rhound50 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:52 am

Ok I actually dont agree here. I dont think you have to bet the flop. Someone with a K in going to call you pretty much not matter what. Wy does this matter??? If they are going to call your bet no matter what, they are going to draw out on you either way if they hit their card so you cant really protect your hand. There really isnt to much that can draw out on you other than a Kx, someone could hit their 2 outter with a PP bigger than 5's but I'm not really worried about that. If somone has the K you are going to get their stack if they dont fill up and if they do you are going to lose a stack the majority of the time. So why not let somone with AQ AJ catch up on the turn, an A, Q, J might get you some action that you might not have gotten otherwise and their is very little risk involved.

Your all in push on the river is very read dependant, I am pretty sure you are ahead K9 is the only reasonable hand that beats you. If you think he has a K then all in is a good play.
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Postby black_knight6 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 1:06 pm

Sorry, I totally misread the action.
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Postby poker2006 » Wed Sep 28, 2005 2:16 pm

-- andyG [Ah]
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