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2 hands I were uncertain of? 400NL and 600NL SH

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2 hands I were uncertain of? 400NL and 600NL SH

Postby Zmej » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:24 pm

Hand1. 600NL SH.
Not much of a read on SB, I won once a big pot from him when I had a nut straight and he had 2 pairs, though he played that hand bad. Another hand that I remember was when I had A no kicker on AQ9r board in a multiway pot, I bet out he CR me big and I folded.

Preflop I wanted to take the initiative and be able to play the position postflop, hence a 4 bet. Good or bad? On turn and river I just couldn't stand his weakness.

Seat 2: andacaly ($289.60 in chips)
Seat 5: SB ($579.00 in chips)
Seat 8: snotto56 ($906.45 in chips)
Seat 10: Hero [Ks] [Ac] ($1,085.65 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
padiii1 posts blind ($3), snotto56 posts blind ($6).

PRE-FLOP
Hero bets $16, andacaly calls $16, SB bets $50, snotto56 folds, Hero raises to $150, andacaly folds, SB calls $96.

FLOP (320): [2s] [7s] [Kc]
SB checks, Hero checks.

TURN (320): [6h]
SB checks, Hero bets $150, SB calls $150.

RIVER (620): [5c]
SB checks, Hero bets all-in

Hand2. 400NL SH.
TAG is on several of my tables, not so sure why. Not so much of a history, though, he didn't 3 bet me much, nor I him. The only hand that I remember is his float attempt, when I CR him on turn AI with big overpair. Though he seems to be rather competent and I did't want to play a big pot OOP with him, that's why I called preflop.
Villain is nothing special, probably is not very good. Not much of a read though.
Thoughts on my line? Other possible lines?

Seat 2: Que32 ($257.10 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero [Ac] [Kc] ($726.55 in chips)
Seat 5: bambiniello ($352.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Villain ($328.80 in chips)
Seat 9: TAG ($455.60 in chips)



ANTES/BLINDS
Hero posts blind ($2), bambiniello posts blind ($4).

PRE-FLOP
Villain calls $4, TAG bets $25, Que32 folds, Hero calls $23, bambiniello folds, Villain calls $21.

FLOP (79) :[Ks] [5s] [Qc]
Hero checks, Villain bets $43, TAG folds, Hero calls $43.

TURN (162): [Js]
Hero checks, Villain bets $60, Hero calls $60.

RIVER (162): [3d]
Hero checks, Villain checks.

Looking at the second hand it seems that a river lead of about 80 could be good?

As always all the input is much appreciated.

Edited for the hole cards in the second hand.
Last edited by Zmej on Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:31 pm

#1) Not standard but I like it for a change of pace.

#2) What do you have?
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Postby Zmej » Fri Mar 02, 2007 6:38 pm

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby iceman5 » Fri Mar 02, 2007 7:05 pm

#2) I would be more apt to check / fold the river if he bets than I would to lead out. If he bets, what can you beat? KT? The only thing leading the river does is stop him from betting (bluffing) with something like [As][Qh] and making you fold the best hand.
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Postby Zmej » Sat Mar 03, 2007 6:50 am

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby GodlikeRoy » Sat Mar 03, 2007 9:51 am

Sorry I missed this.
Hand 1 - I think you should check the river. I can't imagine a single hand worse than yours that he plays like this which calls a river bet. Best case scenario he has AK and calls, or he folds. Worse case and he has a weirdly played set or maybe AA and you lose. The rest of the hand is played well. Btw - do you often open with a 2.5x BB raise? It seems a little small to me, I usually do 3x to 4x raises. Just curious.

Hand 2 - I've found myself taking this line several times in the past and don't particularly like it as I think a good player will fire 3 barrels if you check-call the flop and turn on this board (although by betting more on the turn and decent size on the river, I think you would need to fold in that case a good % of the time too).

After you call preflop, I think you basically have to play the flop and turn the same way you did. I think betting 80 on the river and check-calling are both good, i really don't like check-folding as he could easily have been betting air/not much on the flop and again on the turn but picked up a flush draw and would fire again on the river as it may be his only way to win the pot.
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Postby Zmej » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:04 am

Concerning preflop reaise:
I always open raise to about 2,5BB preflop, I try to start with a smaller pot postflop, while putting some pressure on the blinds. If there are limpers I either call or raise bigger.

Concerning Hand1, I agree with your points here. A strange thing though. He typed in the chat: 'Folding AA', and folded. I didn't tell him anything, of course, but it got me thinking. I am not 100% sure that he didn't lied to me there, though.

Could someone really fold AA there?
"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of the pages so that the grid lines were not so dominant.

"Interesting - I use a Mac to help me design the next Cray."
- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when he was told that Apple Inc. had recently bought a Cray supercomputer to help them design the next Mac.
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Postby T-Rod » Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:39 am

Hand 1) I doubt he's folding AA. Why play AA that passive after so much goes in pf? I don't mind the way you played it.

Hand 2) I like the way you played it too. I don't think there is a need for more aggression there. Preflop is debatable though.
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Postby RedBarracuda » Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:16 am

1) why check the flop? can someone explain?
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Postby Triple B » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:24 pm

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Postby GooperMC » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:41 pm

Rhound - I got 2 outted in a $2000 pot last year, I have also broke a cup in half playing catcher. The feelings were similar.
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Postby soop » Sat Mar 03, 2007 12:43 pm

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Postby RedBarracuda » Sat Mar 03, 2007 7:21 pm

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(6:35:48 PM) giantgrwth: I once beat up an attempted murderer, 25% true story
(6:35:59 PM) hard2tel45s: boxing?
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(6:36:14 PM) hard2tel45s: sweet
(6:36:30 PM) giantgrwth: He was my best friend too, lol
(6:36:48 PM) hard2tel45s: well u were in the crazy bin bro
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Postby black_knight6 » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:08 pm

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Postby GodlikeRoy » Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:19 pm

I don't think Zmej would 4bet JJ/QQ pre-flop there, so you can discount that from his range.

Red - the reason to check this flop is to control the pot size, and also because it's hard to believe worse hand will call the bet. Villian will fold with PPs and call with AA/AK/Sets (or maybe re-raise) and he can also re-raise with flush draws and put Hero in a difficult position.

Once we check the flop, if villian fires the turn, we would just call, for the same reasons we check the flop.
Poker is silly.

It is not enough to be good at chess, you must also play well.

Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not. When you race him, he will win.

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