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Hand Value

Postby Sir_Raise_Alot » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:26 am

$25 NL .10/.25 blinds.
UTG is tight Agressive passive with $50.00
I am on button with QJs and with $51.75
Sb is very tight passive passive with $22.00
BB is tight passive aggressive with $24.75

UTG limps
players 4-9 fold
In limit I fold because I need three opponents to have correct odds for my str8 or flush draw on the flop. Is this true in No Limit or does the fact that UTG who is agrresive pre-flop limped in and has two buy- ins in front of him give me the implied odds I need to limp in also? Or I am giving to much value to implied odds?
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Be aggresive, play the odds and you will over come the bad beats of life (I think).
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Postby Jav » Tue Apr 05, 2005 11:33 am

I would limp with QJs. I may even raise a limper if I feel he's tight and will fold.

But in most cases I'll limp with a hand like that when possible, hoping to hit a big flop and take someones stack. I think the implied odds definitely justify a limp, even with only one other limper.
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Postby excession » Tue Apr 05, 2005 12:51 pm

Somoene who is ranked aggressive pre-flop rasies 8%+ of hands . OTB here I would make a standard raise hoping to isolate and bet out if checked to on flop (as he is passive post-flop he is unlikely to bet out against a pre-flop rasier if he misses).

This is playing the player and positon rather than the hand of course..
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Postby devilmollusk » Tue Apr 05, 2005 2:00 pm

Suited connectors are great hands in NL to steal pots with, according the Godfather himself. Now QJs is not the best suited connector, but in this position you should try a steal, especially against a loose player who limped. If he re-raises you then I would fold this... he was limping a big hand. If he calls he will be out of position and you have an excellent opportunity to steal this pot regardless of what flops. Your problems come on a flop with lots of paint. Don't fall in love with your draw here as these are not the best connectors to draw to.
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Re: Hand Value

Postby rdale » Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:36 pm

On the value of implied odds...

Implied odds are not certain, that much is for sure, hence the term implied. I base a good deal of my game around implied odds, the key to properly utilizing implied odds is understanding your opponent.

Against a tight passive opponent I don't strive to get implied odds, they will likely fold to a big bet, you don't really want to play less than a very strong hand against them, one that you know you can milk.

Loose passive players however, implied odds are great, middle pair may be good if you hit the Q in your hand, they pay off your draws for big bets and take far worse flush draws than Q high if you wind up hitting the same draw. They also tend not see the limitation of the value of their hand so you can get more than your hand really deserves when you do hit, they will over play an obviously beat hand.

Tight aggressive players that stick around past the flop, I want to have a hand that can make the nuts. Especially if we hit the same draw, you have to assume they have K high if they go ape and you hold Q high, and try to get to a cheaper showdown. They won't always have the nuts or the second nuts, but they will hold it often enough that I slow down a bunch.

Loose aggressive opponents. Implied odds especially when they have a big stack is critical, even more so when you both have big stacks. Q high will often be the best of the two flushes if you share a flush. Middle pair with either the QJ may be good. You have to becareful and look for weird straights and odd two pairs and not over play your hand. Playing these in a raised pot against a deeper stack LAG is fine, especially with position. If they only have a buy in or less I don't worry about it and stick with playing tight until they have something really worth winning, they will hand over the money soon enough.

Requirements to play the implied:
Raised pots
LAG that has me covered is a good start.
Deep stack over 2x the buy in with me having 1.5 to 2x the buy in against every one else.

Unraised pots:
I don't have much requirements, except the above statements detailing how much i think I can get from different opponents.
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