The preflop raiser has been playing very loose, he has shown raises with QJ and KQ since I sat down, which is why I called with AJs. Ilalmost always fold AJs to a raise . Anyone else able to put him on this hand. As it is I got very lucky, but he misplayed the hell out of his hand.


***** Hand History for Game 1922164726 *****
Table Table 37248 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: dil2111 ( $129.7 )
Seat 6: GREEZEE ( $93.55 )
Seat 7: goldenthroat ( $62.75 )
Seat 4: SDMuppet ( $44.5 )
Seat 8: IzFish ( $67.8 )
Seat 9: ruckes ( $47.85 )
Seat 3: Zack999111 ( $58.75 )
Seat 5: tbill1211 ( $36.9 )
Seat 1: krazyk987 ( $49.5 )
Seat 10: luckyhand168 ( $49.5 )
GREEZEE posts small blind [$0.25].
goldenthroat posts big blind [$0.5].
Zack999111 posts big blind + dead [$0.75].
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to IzFish [ As Js ]
IzFish calls [$0.5].
ruckes calls [$0.5].
luckyhand168 folds.
krazyk987 folds.
dil2111 folds.
GREEZEE: zzzzzzzzz
Zack999111 raises [$1.5].
tbill1211 folds.
GREEZEE calls [$1.75].
goldenthroat folds.
IzFish calls [$1.5].
ruckes calls [$1.5].

** Dealing Flop ** [ 5s, Jh, Td ]
GREEZEE checks.
IzFish checks.
ruckes checks.
Zack999111 bets [$2].
GREEZEE calls [$2].
IzFish raises [$10].
ruckes folds.
Zack999111 calls [$8].
GREEZEE folds.
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
IzFish is all-In.
Zack999111 is all-In.
** Dealing River ** [ 3s ]
IzFish shows [ As, Js ] a flush, ace high.
Zack999111 doesn't show [ Ac, Ah ] two pairs, aces and tens.
IzFish wins $9.3 from side pot #1 with a flush, ace high.
IzFish wins $120.75 from the main pot with a flush, ace high.

Rhound..
Yeah, he definitely misplayed, but I don't know if it was "horrible"... I mean, he raised 3xBB PF, which is a little low for me... Obviously he underbet the pot... If he was trying to do that to get someone to raise so he could reraise, I MAY understand, but probably not...
Why did you go allin on the turn? Were you trying to get him to fold, or did you want a call, cause I was thinking that he had an overpair, probably not aces... I probably would've put him on Qs or Js, which would mean he was slowplaying a set...
I probably would've raised about a pot-sized bet, and played it from there if he called...
MVP

How did he misplay his hand? Perhaps the bet on the flop being too small, small enough that a 10 could reasonably stay in. But once you raised from the SB, I think he played it perfectly. If he comes over the top you muck a worse hand and call a better hand, but if he just calls, he lets you push in with a worse hand, since you have to bet on the turn.

The whole "he wont carll with a worse hand so you shouldnt raise" is something that I think we need to discuss in great detail.

I disagree with alot of this reasoning (which doesnt necessarily make me right).

If AA reraises here, alot of guys will play for their stack with AJ. Its dumb, but they do it all the time.

What if you just call with AA and then a K or Q hits. It will slow them down considerably.

There is case after case of hands like that where although you would think a worse hand wont call a big reraise, if you dont reraise the flop, you lose your action.

Im going to start a new thread

"What if you just call with AA and then a K or Q hits. It will slow them down considerably."

Yes but what if the person folds a hand they'd otherwise play their stack for. There are pros and cons to every choice, and I'd agree with you in most situations, but not this one. When you have position on someone, who just check-raised you, and will put in the rest of their stack 80% of the time on the turn, you shouldn't be pushing here. Heck, if a K or a Q comes, do you expect your opponnent to check-fold? The same players that will call an all in with TPTK will still lead out on the turn, or check-call. Players who can't fold TPTK to an all in, traditionally don't check-fold the turn after check-raising someone on the flop, even with a scare card.

Sure it is a risk that a slow-down card will come, but the reward is well worth the risk in this case. If you're playing with guys that will always call all in with TPTK, then yes, your case is stronger.

Rhound, not to complain but it would be a whole lot easier to read your posted hands if you used the 'Hand converter' . When you make a new post the link is found to the left under the emoticons. It's really easy to use. It works with most sites, among them party which is where you are currently playing, right?

Thanks

"I think he should go back over the top, I'm going to fold of course but he doesnt know that. "

How is that playing poorly? "he doesn't know that" Yes he should know that you're going to call or push with a hand that beats you, and fold a hand that he beats. Going back over the top is a fairly large mistake leaving a lot of value out there, IMO. Going over the top is also essentially IMO playing scared. Playing scared meaning passing up an opportunity with great value, simply to avoid the chance of being outdrawn, eventhough the odds of extra value gained far outweights the liklihood of being outdrawn.

Just to clarify: If you do not have position on your opponnent, this situation is 100% different, and I would recommend pushing. The fact that position is such a significant factor in the discussion here, leads me to be weary to make general statements as Ice did in his other post when discussing this issue.

The 2nd most important issue in this case is whether or not the in between player will drop to the check-raise and then your call.

Palman, I see what your saying and I agree with you in some respects, but here are my issues with your play, yes he is most likely ahead with AA here, the only legit hands I could have to beat him would be JJ, 1010 or J10 any of which I could have called his raise with. The reason I dont like this play is two fold, I really dont want to play this hand 3 way, by calling he is giving the other players odds to call with all kinds of hands. There are a lot of cards that scare you on the turn any card 9 or above is a possible drawing dead card vs a st8 or drawing thin vs two pair. Either way I got really lucky.

Soul in the future I will use the hand converter, my bad.

Intimate knowledge of the player in the middle is the biggest key, and driving him out would be the best point someone advocating pushing could make. However, suppose there was no player in the middle (since the discussion we have had for the most part since then revolves more around how to ideally play it against you, the check-raiser, and how to best play against that person) I think pushing here would be leaving a lot of value out on the table.