First STONE COLD Bluff hand I have made since I've been serious about Poker. Right now I never play middle SCs or the 84s i played here as I'm still pretty new to this and I'm at low levels and win fine playing pockets and high paint. Based on his betting patterns I thought to heck with it I'm trying it. (it) being the bet on the river.

Turn, I bet .75 because of a few factors. I wanted to test the waters. If he raised I was of course folding. If he called I would figure he had a draw or something strong (slowplaying) and I had position and could act accordingly on the river based on what flopped and how he reacted to it.

ejaEntendu posts the big blind of $.25.

JckMonroe: -- --
OklahomaMonte: -- --
DejaEntendu: -- --
Neil45: -- --
Sir Endipity: -- --
Bold Strategy: -- --
Shine Box: -- --
Proplayer44: 4c 8c

Pre-flop:

Neil45 folds. Sir Endipity folds. Bold Strategy
folds. Shine Box folds. Proplayer44 raises to $.75. I usually raise with at least 4xbb but hey first bluff like this I was a little scared.
JckMonroe folds. OklahomaMonte folds. DejaEntendu
calls.

Flop (board: Kh 6s Qs):

DejaEntendu checks. Proplayer44 checks.

Turn (board: Kh 6s Qs Kd):

DejaEntendu checks. Proplayer44 bets $.75.
DejaEntendu calls.

River (board: Kh 6s Qs Kd Qc):

DejaEntendu checks. Proplayer44 bets $4.75.
DejaEntendu folds, showing Ts Jd. Proplayer44 is
returned $4.75 (uncalled).

Proplayer44 opts to show 4c 8c. I opted to show because I'm super tight and thought if he or any others pay attention I may be paid off well in the next little while if I hit something. I'm at work and had to leave the table shortly after anyway but what can you do.

What do you think? Did I do OK. At what on- line levels will I need to start attempting similar moves. This stuff could give me an early heart attack.

Heart attacks are VERY -EV. Keep that in mind.

What site is this?

I never run plays like this. I suppose I could, but with all the donks around I'm not sure what the point would be.

So let me ask ... what was the point? What are you trying to accomplish?

I don't like the way you played it. The only reason he folded the river is because he was drawing and missed. You didn't even make him pay for his draw. Also, if he knew how to bet his draws, he would have bet that flop (or the turn) -- and now what do you do? If you only have the guts to raise preflop to 3x the BB, do you really have the guts to raise a bet with nothing?

It's UB. My voluntarly was at about 9 or 10%. I was in late position and was hoping to steal the blinds to people holding really bad cards or get called and hit a miracle like so many do at these levels. Once in and was checked to I thought I woud continue.

Well, all the responses about not bothering to bluff at these levels are true, but there's nothing wrong with having a bit of fun and picking up some new skills at the same time.

So some hopefully helpful comments about the general approach:

[Some of these thoughts are a bit half formed, so all comments welcome! These concepts were developed playing 200 and 400NL Stars and Party, so I can't comment on their usefulness at other limits/sites.]

(1) Why raise pre-flop without a strong hand?

(1.1) Blind stealing

I'm pretty sure blind stealing from anything other than cut-off/button is unprofitable. (a) There's too much chance that you'll be called, (b) if you are it's likely you'll be out-of-position, (c) The blinds are small relative to your stack/what your opening raise should be (4-5xBB).

Some numbers I have suggest that once you get to cut-off/button, it's marginally +EV (ie because (a) and (b) become less significant), though these aren't statistically significant. And there was "committed" play on the flop.

(1.2) Pre-flop aggression with "implied odds" hands

So, most people go for pre-flop raises in LP with hands like suited connectors, pocket pairs and suited aces. Often you raise a limper or two.

There's quite a few reasons to do this:

(a) At the higher limits, you get lots of people who "set farm", basically do nothing but call raises with pairs (etc) to hit sets (or better) and stack you. By raising with a % of weak hands (thus they get little money off you when they do hit but still fold when they miss), you destroy their implied odds. Ha!

(b) Some players are too loose pre-flop (ie they call raises with weak hands, and then check-fold the flop if they miss). Clearly raising with any hand you want to play is good here. [but not all the time, or you'll get a reputation as a maniac = bad, see later]

(c) You get action on your big hands. (Overrated, IMO.)

(d) The net effect of raising a couple of limpers (provided you have a non maniac image) is often that you build a pot with position, 1-2 opponents, and a draw. If you think you're better than they are, then this is clearly a good thing.

(2) What to do on the flop

Basically, you always bet the flop unless
(a) There are loads of opponents and/or the board is "really horrid" (you get a feel for this with experience)
(b) You're often getting check raised/called down *and* you have some sort of draw
(c) You're worried you're getting a reputation as a complete maniac (generally in hold'em you want people to believe you have a hand when you bet, since you usually don't!) and thus (b) is happening ridiculously often...

(3) What to do when you're called on the flop...

Generally, give up and check/fold turn and river (obviously unless you improve!). Two exceptions:

(a) Sometimes you'll notice opponents (eg watching hands in which you're not involved) who almost always call the flop and then fold the turn. You can fire the occasional second barrel at these guys

(b) When you've got a bit of experience in getting called on the flop, you'll get a feel for the sorts of flops where, when you and your opponent check to the river, he actually has a draw a fair amount of the time (like the hand you posted!) In these cases, there's no harm in firing a second barrel on the river (not the turn - he'll often call again, and then it get's expensive when you're wrong).

(4) This is all stealing really, what's a "stone cold bluff"?

You should never/rarely go into a hand with the intention of bluffing. Generally you bluff when three things happen at once:

(a) You miss the draw you were going for on the turn/river
(b) You spot that another draw (one you don't have) did hit, and you could sensibly have played that draw/made-hand the same way
(c) You suspect your opponent is good enough to spot the same thing, and disciplined enough to fold.

The classic example is where you have a straight draw and a flush hits the turn. So you check-call the flop, then bet out on the turn (or check-raise, or whatever you'd normally do).

There a couple of other types of bluff that spring to mind:
(a) semi-bluff, covered trillions of times by much better players!
(b) the "betting pattern" bluff - based on someone's betting patterns you don't think they have a hand so you don't need to worry about representing a hand. Examples: whenever someone raises pre-flop and then checks, they have a missed AK; whenever someone checks flop, turn, and river; people who min bet then fold to a raise; etc etc

(5) Final thought

Make sure you occasionally keep records as you can take this sort of play too far and it becomes an expensive leak if left unchecked (<==== FROM EXPERIENCE)

Great info.