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Extracting value from quads

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Extracting value from quads

Postby Alchemist » Tue Aug 02, 2005 5:21 pm

I was all at sea with this one, thought I was playing it cute calling the flop but had difficulty getting more money out of villian. It's pretty obvious he didn't have much or just smelled a monster and got away as cheaply as possible.
Various questions here.....raise the flop? lead on the turn? check the river hoping for a bluff or pot size bet?

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed)

MP2 ($32.80)
MP3 ($9.50)
CO ($21.75)
Button ($32.75)
Hero ($53.15)
BB ($62.85)
UTG ($19.60)
UTG+1 ($34.50)
MP1 ($22.90)

Preflop: Hero is SB with [4d], [4c].
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.50, 1 fold, Button raises to $1, Hero calls $0.75, BB raises to $3.50, Button folds, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($8.75) [4s], [7d], [4h] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $5, Hero calls $5.

Turn: ($18.75) [Jd] (2 players)
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: ($18.75) [Ah] (2 players)
Hero bets $5, BB calls $5.

Final Pot: $27.10

Results in white below:
Hero has 4d 4c (four of a kind, fours).
MP3 doesn't show.
Outcome: Hero wins $27.10.
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Postby briachek » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:52 pm

not much else you can do but maybe bet more on the river. That ace likely hit so I proably make it 8 or so but not much else you can do. You don't get to see what he had?
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Postby T-Rod » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:22 pm

Crazy idea... go all in on the river.

Sure, you might scare away a value bet, but you will also get called some (IMHO more made from allins than value bets). If I was your opponent, the ace fell, you went all in (which is a bet that looks like it didn't want to be called), I might put you on a steal and call.

Also, if he folds, you have a greater chance of him (and the table) calling your next all in when you have it.

This is not conventional per se, but it is probably effective at $50NL
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Postby Molina » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:39 pm

When out of position:


Whenever I've been so blessed there are 2 types of quads, high quads (aces down to ten) and the rest. High quads and you're opponent should be worried you have ONE of them. I usually check the hell out of these and hope that by turn or river opponent is convinced they have the best hand.

Low quads (the lower the better) I usually put a small bet out knowing they'll at least call to hit their overs. On the turn it's probably the same size bet again. If no A,K or Q have dropped yet and no interest has been shown I'll probably fire a half pot bet trying to represent the overcards and get called by 88, 99 and the like.

When in position:

High or low quads I'm definitely check/calling the flop as any bets are likely to be continuation ones with overcards. On the turn, if it's checked to me I'm putting out a small bet. By river, assuming no particular display of strength I'll bet half or quarter pot.

Ulitimately it comes down to whether the opponent has a decent overpair or develops some kind of draw, then you're likely to get action. The tighter my opponent the more I'll put them on 10's-A's and try and get some money in before a scare card ace appears.

And, as always, it depends on any maniac tendencies of your opponent.

The thing I would recommend is with low quads and out of position is to make a small bet, assuming your opponent has a brain that is working a sequence of check-call check-call and BET is worrisome. I think you should be trying to appear weak throughout , hoping for the reraise.

Don't think this is a very coherent post, hope it's of some use.
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Postby briachek » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:51 pm

trodgers might be on to something. Going all in only has to work every once in a while to be better than value betting.
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Postby T-Rod » Tue Aug 02, 2005 8:56 pm

This hand happened not 10 minutes after my post. Took my own advice---partially. I waited an eternity to call his turn bet.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (10 handed)

saw flop|saw showdown

UTG+1 ($32.75)
UTG+2 ($38.92)
MP1 ($51.80)
MP2 ($53.05)
MPC ($135.92)
CO ($50)
Button ($51.95)
SB =#A500AF(Poor Wittle Full House)/ ($62.30)
BB ($49.50)
UTG ($45.50)

Preflop: CO posts a blind of $0.50. SB =#A500AF(Poor Wittle Full House)/ posts a blind of $0.25.
2 folds, UTG+2 calls $0.50, MP1 calls $0.50, 1 fold, MPC calls $0.50, CO (poster) checks, 1 fold, SB =#A500AF(Poor Wittle Full House)/ (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($3) [3h], [3d], [3s] (6 players)
Poor Wittle Full House checks, BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, MPC checks, CO checks.

Turn: ($3) [5h] (6 players)
Poor Wittle Full House bets $3, BB folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MPC calls $3, CO folds.

River: ($9) [4h] (2 players)
Poor Wittle Full House bets $2, MPC raises to $25, Poor Wittle Full House calls $23.

Final Pot: $59

Results in white below:
Poor Wittle Full House has Ah 5c (full house, threes full of fives).
MPC has 3c 4c (four of a kind, threes).
Outcome: MPC wins $59.
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Postby briachek » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:17 pm

PWFH is a moron. He's calling 23 more dollars to split the money in the pot already.
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Postby Molina » Tue Aug 02, 2005 9:19 pm

Good lordy the SB made such a genuinely horiffic, cackhanded super monkey call, I am actually shocked!

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Postby Alchemist » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:01 am

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Postby k3nt » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:42 am

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Too Funny

Postby T-Rod » Wed Aug 03, 2005 11:24 pm

Here's another all in from tonight. Gotta love party.
8-)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB =(Fishy full)/ (6 max, 5 handed)

BB =(Fishy full)/ ($75.28)
UTG ($89.95)
Hero ($56.16)
Button ($40.10)
SB ($116.93)

Preflop: Hero is MP with [Ac], [7d]. SB posts a blind of $0.25.
1 fold, Hero calls $0.50, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, BB =#A500AF(Fishy full)/ checks.

Flop: ($1.50) [8c], [Ah], [As] (3 players)
SB checks, Fishy full checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($1.50) [Ad] (3 players)
SB checks, Fishy full checks, Hero checks.

River: ($1.50) [5s] (3 players)
SB checks,Fishy full bets $10[/color], Hero calls $55.66 (All-In), SB folds, Fishy full calls $45.66.

Final Pot: $112.82

Results in white below:
Fishy full has 5h 3h (full house, aces full of fives).
Hero has Ac 7d (four of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Hero wins $112.82.
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