This is really a follow-up to my survey results, which I find a bit shocking actually.

The challenge is this: Who here can show an actual profit (better than "marginal," whatever that exactly means) for at least 30k hands played on ANY logical groups of hands in ANY logical group of positions except for the following:

Pairs
AK
54s-98s in LP

Those are, I'm pretty sure, the only ones I can actually do it on. And anyone is welcome to slice it up however they want--with a proviso: If you have a profit on KJo from LP, you have to also include AQ, KQ, AJ, etc. It can't be just a "one shot wonder," which even over 30k hands can still happen.

Also, if you have KQo from MP, you obviously also have to include LP--if the hand is really playable in MP, then it's clearly playable in LP as well.

I will say this regarding my LP suited connectors: I don't by any means "necessarily" play them, even for a limp. My main criterion was actually multi-way, and I'm sure I also called plenty of raises that I really shouldn't have with them. But they still came out at least ok. I also played them a lot in MP and EP, but they were losers there. So, if anyone can turn that around (i.e., include more positions for their playability), I'd be interested in hearing about it, too.

I am comortably up on Axs (A9s-A2s) which I play from MP or LP.

I'm pretty sure that I'm up with Ax down to and including A9o too.

I have been a winner in all DB's since I started playing with the above hands.

In my latest DB:
I am also winning with sited 2-gappers T8s-42s from the same positions.
I am losing on the suited one-gappers.

How about "suited aces" as a catagory? NON raising suited aces from any position including the blinds.

AJs.....1.3
ATs.....0.66
A9s.....0.08
A8s......0.20
A7s.....0.68
A6s......-0.08
A5s.....0.70
A4s.....0.02
A3s......0.36
A2s......0.70

Im sure these are higher in LP, but i didnt sort since Im clearly making a profit from ANY position including the blinds. Obviously I dont play them as much in EP.


Hmmmm..how about the KQ, KQ, KJ, KT hands? Again, from ANY position including the blinds

KQs.....0.80
KQ.......0.58
KJs......1.20
KJ........0.16
KTs......0.80
KT........-0.18

Not in a blind.....

KQs......1.12
KQ........0.64
KJs.......1.32
KJ.........0.18
KTs........0.60
KT.........0.00

Did I pass the challenge?

AJs is not a raising hand, Ice??

How is it that I am raising only 8%PF if I raise AJs from almost any position?

I also raise KQ even offsuit if I have favorable reads on the table. i think the number is not so high because I play neutral in a maniacs filled table. I dont like suited connector either.

I raise AJs and KQ sometimes, but I dont consider them raising hands. Its situational for me.

KQ is most definately a "trouble hand", and alot of good players wont play it at all. I will play it almost anywhere becasue I have no problem folding a King high flop depending on the action and who is in the pot.

excession

Ok, then the next questions: When and how do you play AXs from MP and LP?

Same for A9o-AQo

iceman5

ice, your data looks very interesting--particularly so since I know your database is very large and your play solid.

First question: When and how do you play AXs? Were you consistently playing them in MP? I would tend to assume that you almost never played them from the first two positions at a full table (?).

As to your kings: First, I note that cutting out KTo would have actually helped a little. And, obviously, if you take those, then at least AJo has to also be included (if KJo is profitable as hand, then AJo has to be). Do you consistently play these hands from MP? Again, I'm assuming that you almost never play them from EP, except maybe SB.

Now a few other questions:

1) Do you play suited connectors (54s-98s) from MP or EP at all regularly? If so, are they profitable for you there?

2) Do you play QJ, QT, JT at all? If so, profit or loss?

Here are my number for 9K handsof AXs, Ice´s non raise:

AJs = 2.97
ATs = 0.21
A9s = -1.27 basically because of two flush with paired boards....
A8s = -1.05
A7s = 2.02
A6s = 2.25
A5s = 0.88
A4s = 0.22
A3s = 2.24
A2s = 1.81

I play most of this hands passively, except AJs, which is a raise hand almost in any position in my case. In case I flop an A with AT and worse, I might play agressive but depending on reads of the table/players. Basically i play this hands passively and wait for the flush.



Could I be getting more money playing more aggressive? i dont think so but would like to know your thoughts.

excession

One other thing, on the suited connectors and 1-gappers: In my 3 databases of 10-12k each, I go a bit up and down on these as well and had a phase of playing them consistently from all positions. In one of the databases, I was down on the suited connectors but up on the 1-gappers.

But the suited connectors are just objectively better than the 1-gappers (not by a lot but by a little), so I think you have to include both. Even on a large-ish database, there's definitely some variation if a few big hands hit favorably or unfavorably on something.

I'm pretty confident that this group, one way or another can be played profitably, but my main questions here are:

1) Is the slight difference between the suited connectors and 1-gappers sufficient to warrant forgetting about the 1-gappers altogether?

2) How picky do you need to be about favorable conditions for playing them?

Most people like to play Axs after limpers like you would in a limit game.

I will play them in LP after limpers or in LP if Im the 1st one in. After limpers, Im usually playing the draw.

If its just me and the blinds, then Im betting the flop no matter what hits if its checked to me (which is why I play it w/o limpers).

Ace high flop, I bet pot
Flush draw, I bet pot
K94 flop, I bet pot.

I bet pot no matter what flops.
If one of them bets and I have a flush draw, I min raise usually.

If Im in MP, then I will only limp after a limper or 2 and/or if theres no aggressive raiser behind me.

I rarely play them up front, because I think there alot of EV that comes from betting with nothing and I cant do that in EP.

The K hands, I dont play up front at all unless theyre suited and even then I dont like them if the table is aggressive at all. I'll open limp in MP with KQ or KJ, but like I said, I have no problem folding a Kxx flop.

AJ is profitable also, so I dont mind including it.

With the suited connectors, if Im in MP, I will either raise or fold. If Im 1st in, I'll raise alot of times. I dont open limp in MP. If theres one or 2 limpers already, then I'll limp along.