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Another hand, what to do?

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Another hand, what to do?

Postby Rhound50 » Sun May 01, 2005 4:08 am

I am in the BB with [As] [Qs]. Limps around to the blinds and BB checks. Flop is [8s] [7c] [3s]. Hero leads out $15 hoping to disguise the flush draw and build a pot.Two callers both very weak players. Mp raise to $50. I call, other two players fold turn is a blank. I really think Mp has A8, so I push all in for $108 trying to represnt a set, mp thinks and then calls. River is a blank, Mp wins with two pair 8's and 7's. I have been kicking this one through my head all day. I really feel like I played this badly, I really think that if I wanted to semi bluff here, I should have pushed after he raised the flop and atleast give my hand two cards to catch the flush. Opinions????
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Postby Mad Genius » Sun May 01, 2005 4:34 am

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Postby Smokin'Al » Sun May 01, 2005 7:07 am

Why only put villain on A8? He's showing strength by raising an EP bettor and two callers. It's a draw-tastic board, so no-one decent is going to slowplay (in fact his raise is far too small). There's a range of hands he could have, but definitely 88, 77, 33, 87 in addition to 99, TT, possibly JJ; also A8, or a big draw.

I think reraising the flop would be a mistake, as you don't have enough fold equity given the raise and the two callers; and many of the hands that will fold (apart from A8) you want in (eg lower spade draws).

Also, if villain has got a strong hand, he's made a mistake by giving you excellent odds to call, and reraising lets him redeem himself.

Finally just calling will induce the weaker spade draws to stay in (ie the two initial callers).

OK, so once you've called the flop I reckon you need to check again, as your hand has got worse and you don't have enough information to know what's happened to his hand. Possibilities...
(1) He bets strong and you fold - well, you had odds to call the flop only, so no big deal
(2) He bets weak and gives you odds to call again
(3) He bets weak and you feel that a check raise all-in will move him off his hand ... (actually he'd have to bet *very* weak since you only 100 left and there's 100 in the pot).

I like gunning the flop with a big draw as much as the next man, but not against someone who raises a multiway pot with several callers. I think the situation here calls for bet-call flop, check-fold turn, and I think that is +EV.
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Postby iceman5 » Sun May 01, 2005 7:56 am

Stack sizes and pot size are the most important things here. In alot of cases I would push on the flop after he raised, but in others (probably including this one) I would fold or wouldnt have bet in the 1st place.

You need alot of fold equity to go with your flush draw and possible overcard outs. If the pot is too big compared to his stack, you'll have none. In the games you play, with a $50 raise, I have a feeling he doesn have enough left to fold.
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Postby Rhound50 » Sun May 01, 2005 10:40 am

Sorry guys for not posting this one better, I was pretty tired. I played poker pretty much from Thursday night to saturday night non stop. With home games and casino and a little party poker mixed in. Anyways the game was $1/$3, I have $170 or so, my opponant has me covered. I do think I had borderline enough to fold him, he had raised $50 and I had $110 or so left. So my reraise was just less than the pot. I wouldnt have done it if, the pot was already $200+. I was pretty sure the two midde position players were weak both were very passive players and to a raise and reraise I was pretty sure it would have been heads up. I was thinking about pusing all in on the flop, even if I just have 9 outs I'm going to be getting just about even money on my $110 reraise since the pot was going to be around $350 plus I have fold equity. The problem here is I pushed the turn not the flop, which was my mistake, and he had 78 not A8.
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Postby MVPSPORTS » Sun May 01, 2005 11:21 am

Rhound... the problem is, I don't think you would've chased him off his hand anyway... He had a well disguised 2 pair, and you weren't playing the hand, to me, like you had a set... You let out the flop and pushed the turn... Don't most people check/raise the flop and/or turn in that situation w/ a set? You were playing like you were on a draw or an overpair, and I probably wouldn't have folded either...
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Postby Rhound50 » Sun May 01, 2005 6:13 pm

MVP, I actually do play my sets that agressive, I want action and betting is the best way to get that, I dont like checking and risking letting a free card hurt my hand or kill my action on the turn.

I really dont expect him to fold top two here, but that is not what I put him on, if I thought he had top two I obviously would have check folded after I missed the turn. I'm ok with the misread that happens, the real question is what do after he raises the flop.
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