Hey guys,

I get dealt [8h] in LP

EP makes it 7BB and I call along. We are heads up.

The flop comes [Qd][3s], he leads with a pot size bet,

should I

A: Smoothcall and make a BIG raise witha non diamond turn

B: Raise and protect against the FD


I called and then the turn was (yuck, so much for my big plans!)

He bet like 1/3 pot, so i called to boat up

River

He checks, and i make a 1/2 pot value bet, he calls

U guys like like??I was thinking of making a big raise on the flop, but i wanted to get my money in as a 80% favorite rather than a 65% favorite. This was the right thing to do,eh??

He has [Qh]

I do not slowplay sets when there is a draw out. I hardly slowplay ever. Slowplaying is extremely over rated and over used, it is something people do to feel clever about themself. Bet, raise, push is usually a much better option. In this case you would probably have stacked him if you had put in a raise on the flop, the way it turned out you won a much smaller pot AND gave him the chance to suck out (what if he has the )

Yes i hear u Stoneburg, but i have heard from a few good players here. that rather than pushing on the flop as a 65% fav, it is better to wait for the turn, and get it in as a 80% fav and IF the FD hiits yo can either call and boat up (if odds are there).

If he had the and i pushed on the flop and 4 diamonds came, i was dead anyway. This way i still win the same if no diamonds come and lose less if they do. The only way i lose out is i may not win as much when diamonds come and he is not on a FD.

I myself will flat call and make sure there is no diamond on the turn if it is a *multiway* pot and I have reason to believe someone is drawing to a flush. In a heads up pot you're usually up against an overpair, top pair or overcards. I do not worry about flushdraws (much) heads up. Here you actually want to get the money in early because a diamond is likely to *kill* your action, if you just flat call and a diamon arrives he can very well put you on a flush draw and shut down with his TP or overpair.

On the turn you just flat called which would have given him a free chance to outdraw you if he had the is what I ment, not on the flop.

the converse is that if the 3rd diamond hits and your opponent was drawing to the flush with 2 diamonds instead of the one you assume he has, you are now a 4-1 (44-10) underdog to catch quads or fill up.

The point Stoneburg is trying to make is that it is better to put your opponent into a tough spot before you are beat and not count on him missing or your ability to outdraw him on the river.

-Jus

I understand what he is saying. I guess u are right Stoneburg. I should save this type of play for a multiway pot!

max buy-in? stack sizes? blinds? zucc, this is always useful information which you like to leave out of your posts

ok, nothing personal guys, but what is all this 'i never slow play' baloney. middle set in position hu is a monster. it sounds like everyone (incl zucc) is concentrating on/afraid of opp having a flush draw, when there is really only one logical holding that could have it. i would estimate hero is an 85-90% favorite against opp's range of hands (ignoring QQ of course). if opponent has AQ, hero is a ginormous 95/98% favorite depending on if he has the .

to me, the real issue here is how to get maximum value out of this set. i always feel like this is more art than science...this guy raised 7bb in ep, so you have going for yourself that he's probably a moron...so i would probably just pop him back on the flop for somewhere between a small and standard raise. if he has KK/AA, then this guy'll give you his stack right there. also a diamond turn may hurt your action...and does make playing the hand a little dicey.

but per se, i don't really have a problem w/ the smooth call on the flop in a cash game.

The reason I don't slowplay isn't mainly that I am afraid to get outdrawn, although that is afactor, but that you don't win as much money when you slowplay.

In this hand, assuming opponent has AA, KK, AK or AQ (leaving out QQ), how do you make most money? Well if he has AK you *might* make more money by flat calling assuming he is stupid enough to bluff again or unlucky enough to hit TPTK, but against any of the other hands you make much more money by playing back on the flop when he's still feeling good about his hand, when that diamond hits on the turn he should shut down and if he has KK an Ace on the turn will have the same effect.

I'm of the opinion that more than 95% of all slowplaying is bad play. There is a time for it, when the pot is small and you have the deck crippled or a specific read, but in general you're much better off betting and raising.